to be really sick of ASD being trotted out as an excuse?

[faithinthesound]

This is not a TAAT. It's a thread about something I've seen in MANY threads. It seems like in every single thread about someone behaving badly, before too long there is at least someone who comes along all "well, maybe they have ASD".

1. ASD is NOT an excuse for bad behavior. In my experience (and I am on the spectrum myself, so I do have grounds to make this observation) most people with ASD try HARDER to fit in with social conventions, because we are painfully aware of our shortcomings. We don't always succeed, but in my experience it's pretty rare to find a blithely rude person with ASD.

1. Given my status as a person who is actually diagnosed as being on the spectrum, by a team of medical professionals (as opposed to a group of armchair psychiatrists), it is actually incredibly offensive to have this facet of my identity trotted out every time someone wants/needs to explain away bad behavior.

People with ASD are not always rude.
Rude people are not always on the spectrum. Sometimes, they are just rude, self centered, selfish, careless, don't-give-a-tossish, etc.

I have been told to "calm down" when pointing this out before. I would like to reiterate that I am completely calm, for all I am offended and annoyed with this trend. Having said that, I'm fairly certain that if I WERE angry, it would be totally justified.

MakeUpMyRoom
Yes and some people are so desperate for there to be 'something' that they become difficult to deal with.

Eg I've had parents demand we assess their child and having done all the internal bit our in school assessors have said they can't see enough to justify an external assessment (consider that's money we wouldn't be able to spend on a different chikd).
Home have been really uncooperative and demanded we treat the child in class the way you would someone with what the parents think the child has. They also told us theyd told the child how teachers should treat him because he has xyz.
Teachers internally say no (no evidence).
Parents get confrontational and start harassing the school. School decide this targeting of staff isn't fair so bring in a team of external assessors to observe the child etc. Educational psychologists find the child is NT.
Parents then calls me up saying the educational psychologist is wrong and it would be 'just their luck that they came into school on a day where they couldn't see it' and could we send for a reobservation? When the answer was no they offered to pay the school because "there is something wrong with timmy. Nobody else can see it but us".

Actually, Timmy was a lovely child who would behave for some staff and not others. With a consistent approach to behavior and a bit of encouragement he was absolutely fine.

Maisypops do you teach in mainstream or specialist?

It's not unknown for an ed psych who is particularly chummy with a shit senco to back the mainstream school. I've seen a child stitched up in this situation. It wasn't even a proper assessment. It's unfair and the person who suffers the most is the suicidal child.

What we absolutely shouldn't fail to point out to an OP with a diagnosis of ASD is that there is something off about their tone. Disablism 101.

I hear you OP, you've been really clear that you aren't discussing parents and their own children here. My DC has ASD and it's a reason for a great deal of challenging behaviour including not having a filter and being occasionally what other people would class as rude.

It still irks me that someone can post about a terribly rude person in the supermarket for instance and have people queueing up to tell them they shouldn't be cross because the person probably had ASD. It's usually on AIBU and it's usually a way of invalidating someones upset about an incident with a stranger, where there's obviously no benefit to either party in being "diagnosed" on MN.

That's very different from advising a family member or friend about the possibility of ASD.

Preparing to be flamed for this but it's the same with children.

It's almost as if some people refuse to believe that some children are just naughty and badly behaved due to poor discipline.

Before you can even suggest indulgent parenting or that they need harsher discipline you get a barrage of "it must be ADHD/ASD etc)

And I know not all parents do this but I know of at least a couple who have terribly behaved children that get no discipline and are constantly being let off the hook for naughty behaviour because the parents are too lazy to do anything about it and their excuse is "well I think he/she might have ADHD so what can we do?"

Urm how about trying out some discipline first before labelling your child?

I was in a bus queue with a parent and child. The child very clearly had severe sn, probably including asd. This didn't stop some arse in the queue making loud comments to the person next to them about "that child's disgusting behaviour"(child was making loud repetitive noises and had physical repetitive behaviours).
Even with behaviour that obvious people still don't get it.

faith may I point out that I see NOTHING wrong with the tone of your post.

Plus, I agree with wrappers this is disabling 101 when You know the person in question is on the spectrum and therefore can have issues finding the 'right tone'.

So please don't feel you have to apologise for that.

Thank you to everyone who read and comprehended what I was trying to say.

To everyone who found fault: I really am very am sorry if I chose the wrong words, or the wrong tone, or if I gave the impression that I am some sort of authority. I did try very hard not to do any of that. Perhaps I should have said "it's really offensive to me when... etc". Perhaps I should have prefaced every sentence with "Excepting parents who have children with ASD".

Or perhaps, I could have done all of that and there would still be people reading what they want to read.

*really am very sorry.

That will teach me to try to edit on the fly.

I opened this thread all ready for a rant after reading the title, but then I actually read the entire OP and I agree. I have ASD and I work harder than most people to try to social properly, because it doesn't come instinctively.

If a child is having regular meltdowns and someone suggests having them assessed for ASD then I don't see the problem with that but I do see the problem with puffed-up entitled men being diagnosed over the internet by those seeking an excuse for their shit behaviour to their wives. Misogyny is not ASD.

To give another view of 'Timmy's' parents Maisy it must be really frustrating for parents of children who manage to hold it together in school and are told their children are 'fine' when they know they're not.
My ds was diagnosed before school thankfully but has learned a lot of coping strategies and does well academically. His struggles are in the playground and often not seen by teachers as he tries not to get visibly upset because the other children tease him. But he has told me he has spent whole afternoons holding in tears in class and the staff have been none the wiser. They also don't see him at home begging me not to take him to school. I've no doubt if he was assessed at school now they would think he was 'fine'.

bialystockandbloom, thanks I had read it the wrong way, it hurt because I have a child on the spectrum who is violent and has lots of problems, Asd is what causes his behaviour, nothing else.

TheFirstMrsDV, you are totally right, some people think diagnoses are handed out like smarties and they arent, because of idiots like that people have to fight the system for years and years and years, meanwhile the child goes without the help they desprately need.

Back to the subject of the thread. If someone with asd is maybe being a little too honest and it is coming off as rude isn't it better that people consider asd as a possibility rather than just assuming the person is being a prick?
I agree that diagnosing on a forum is not right or even suggesting asd for twatty behaviour that has nothing to do with asd. But if someone is behaving in a way that COULD indicate asd I see no harm, and a lot of benefit, in thinking that it COULD be a sign of asd. Not that it necessarily is but that it's a possibility.

TheRealPooTroll Yup. My daughter may or may not have an ASD - nobody will assess her, because she is an absolute angel in school. However, her school actually listened to us when we described her struggles, including the morning when she refused to go to school and we realised how powerless we are if she decides she doesn't want to go. They made changes. Recommended she join a special nurture group. Since then, she hasn't refused to go, and we have had no screaming tantrums before school - we would have at least one a week before, and sometimes daily. Guess we got lucky with a school that didn't assume it knew our daughter better than us.

Yes, it's oft used as an excuse for bad parenting. Even my friends with spectrum kids still discipline them when they are BU. It's occasionally pointless but at least to the onlookers looks like she's at least trying.

Parent of two children with autism both formally diagnosed.

It frustrates me to see threads where a child isn't behaving and parents have had enough and before you know it someone has trotted out the "they may have asd or ADHD". Yes some might but some might just suffer from lack of discipline and boundaries that aren't consistent. It really fucks me off as although anger can be common in kids with autism there is a reason. It's almost as if we're afraid to say so and so is a little shit. It's now because they have Sen.

My friend has a ds with autism. He's lovely.
Very well behaved most of the time. He's well mannered and kind. Often too kind.
Her dd though who isn't on the spectrum is a little bleeder

Also. Dd1. Is a fidgit. Always has been.
If there's a pen on a table. She has to scribble on something. Hands, table, anything. Even though she knows it's going to ruin something or get her in trouble.
She rips up bits of paper. And chews random things. She's 16 and I still have to check her for having stuff in her mouth.
As soon as I mention that. Everyone jumps straight to the conclusion she has ADHD.
She's never shown any other symptom. But that doesn't matter everyone still jumps in with there diognoses.
Dd2. Doesn't like loud noises and chaos.
It upsets her. She likes calm, routine and order. And likes to be on her own a lot. As soon as people here that shes immediately diagnosed with autism. Not by teachers hv's or nursery staff. Just random people.
People can have different personalities without having some kind of disorder

Yes, I always roll my eyes at posts where there is a child behaving like a little brat and low and behold someone comes along with - they sound like they have asd or sen. Hmmmmm. Or they are just a brat. Bratty kids do exist because they usually have parents who place no boundaries or consequences on their bratty behaviour. Theres a massive difference.

Nellie I love that chart!!!! saved that for future use.

Yanbu op, the armchair diagnosises off one line posts rarely do anyone any good.

Looking at it from a different point of view. What if the person does genuinely have ASD and is undiagnosed - as I was for 40+ years? And by someone suggesting that ASD is a possibility - not a definite, just a possibility to consider - they end up being diagnosed? And with a diagnosis they begin to make more sense of their life? And it makes it easier for those around them to understand why they might do something that can be annoying and to suggest ways to avoid that? Surely it's worth putting up with people sometimes suggesting that autism etc. is a possibility to get that result? I wish I'd been diagnosed years ago, it would have made my life a whole lot easier. If just one person had mentioned it.....

there are alot of arm chair diagnoses on mn so i agree with you there i have heard people on her say oh i think you might have a bi polar etc because they are of course a consultant psychiatrist with many months of seeing the poster instead of some random on the internet who has no mental health training whatsoever ,however when you say most people with ASD try harder to fit in , there are many like son whose autism is so severe that he is totally oblivious to normal behaviour because its a spectrum and not everyone in fact many are not high functioning .

Spikeyball Mainstream. Spent a reasonable amount of time working with parents to get access to support though so have seen the struggle. It's why I get frustrated at times because time we spend on non-issues is time that could be spent on those who are battling the system.

TheRealPooTroll The parents big thing was the issues were school based. Apparently he is just fine at home (when they let him do whatever he wanted because he had a whole list of undiagnosed conditions in their eyes so they let him call the shots).

I can't explain in lots of detail obviously but it was a totally different approach to parents whose kids have additional needs. These parents were rude, confrontational and aggressive. It then shifted to another child having an ever changing list of needs.

Timmy settled beautifully with encoutagement and support. All kids were lovely children who responded well to encouragement and boundaries with supportive staff.

Timmy needed to be told he can do things, because he could. I found myself feeling quite upset at how often those children had been told they 'can't do... because...

My son is fine at home as well. When he's not breaking his heart begging me not to take him to school.
Obviously I don't know about Timmy's case but I know a lot of parents who are frustrated because their children manage in school and bottle all the stress of the day up until they get home. And the school refuse to believe that is the case because the child isn't causing them a problem and they don't see the fallout. In most cases parents do know their children best and want what is best for them. I certainly don't go into school asking for accommodations because I enjoy it and have nothing better to do.