to be really sick of ASD being trotted out as an excuse?

[faithinthesound]

This is not a TAAT. It's a thread about something I've seen in MANY threads. It seems like in every single thread about someone behaving badly, before too long there is at least someone who comes along all "well, maybe they have ASD".

1. ASD is NOT an excuse for bad behavior. In my experience (and I am on the spectrum myself, so I do have grounds to make this observation) most people with ASD try HARDER to fit in with social conventions, because we are painfully aware of our shortcomings. We don't always succeed, but in my experience it's pretty rare to find a blithely rude person with ASD.

1. Given my status as a person who is actually diagnosed as being on the spectrum, by a team of medical professionals (as opposed to a group of armchair psychiatrists), it is actually incredibly offensive to have this facet of my identity trotted out every time someone wants/needs to explain away bad behavior.

People with ASD are not always rude.
Rude people are not always on the spectrum. Sometimes, they are just rude, self centered, selfish, careless, don't-give-a-tossish, etc.

I have been told to "calm down" when pointing this out before. I would like to reiterate that I am completely calm, for all I am offended and annoyed with this trend. Having said that, I'm fairly certain that if I WERE angry, it would be totally justified.

I get where you're coming from OP. I have been told I'm on the spectrum. And I may be (no official diagnosis) but I don't like the way it's become a catch-all for anyone difficult or selfish.

Because ASD is such a wide spectrum, obviously there are in some cases difficult behaviours that the person cannot control and yes it is an genuine excuse for "bad" (meaning undesirable) behaviour. And I think most people are sympathetic to those cases actually.

OTOH at other points on the spectrum, people can learn how to behave, learn to understand what others expect and so on. They are done no favours by the attitude that ASD automatically means you can be demanding, rude, inconsiderate etc. And as you say many people with milder forms are aware of how they come across and do try very hard to manage acceptable social norms even if they find them baffling or challenging.

And then there are the people who do just bandy the term around and diagnose themselves and others willy-nilly and actually do use it to excuse any behaviour they like. And they really do exist. I have a relative who is always adding a new SN or other condition to her huge range of woes. She "has" ADHD, ASD, multiple allergies, multiple vague health problems etc etc - many self-diagnosed - and as far as I can tell they are just excuses to be a massively demanding special snowflake and never consider anyone else's needs. Even if she DOES have some or all of them, that doesn't mean no one else has needs.

I have actually got to the point with her that I feel like saying I have just been diagnosed with Selfish Cow Syndrome which means I can't drop everything to give her a lift/listen to her bore on/let her use my house like a hotel.

I think this is always true though - whatever conditions are popularly known about or a topic of discussion at the time, there will be people that will hijack them or claim them to get sympathy or get their own way.

YANBU - ASD has become the explain all for poor behaviour and shitty parenting.

Yes plenty of people will have diagnosed and some who aren't diagnosed ASD which will explain certain behaviours. But it seems everyone now must have it if they are behaving inappropriately.

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing because it shows awareness about ASD is increasing.

My son is rude. It's bluntness and pragmatism because he doesn't understand the finer nuances of communication. I worry that when he's older he could be abusive because he struggles so so much. He reminds me of my now 60 year old dad who was abusive but is now crystal clear to me he has ASD and communication difficulties too.

I have no diagnosis but again I'm s clear I have Aspergers like both my children.

I think what we are ending up with is a society of people slowly becoming more ASD aware with several generations of people who were not and will never be diagnosed. Many of those will come across as 'twats'.

But as an onlooker you have no way of knowing if someone swearing has Tourette's, or is having an autistic meltdown, or is responding to voices in their head, or just being a twat, but as there's a chance the person is in one of the first 3 groups it can't hurt to be considerate or kind or helpful rather than judge or sneer or moan or treat them like they're infectious. It's all about just taking a moment to consider that what you see might not reflect what's actually going on, and reflecting in that in your actions (or how you later tell the story on MN or FB).

Sorry posted too soon.

... Which is very wrong, as it paints the picture that everyone is perfectly behaved unless they have ASD. So it is dumbing down a disability that needs help and support to just shitty behaviour.

In this day and age though, there always has to be a reason for something (and usually the reason is shifting fault from where it is).

I'm also diagnosed with an ASC.

I find your use of 'ASD' offensive.

Actually as an introverted, socially awkward and foot-in-mouth kind of person - and possibly on the spectrum - I have sympathy for people who are like that and clearly didn't mean to be rude. If I realise I've been too blunt or got the wrong end of the stick, I will apologise - and so will others I know who are like that. Or they'll blush or make a self-deprecating comment.

Whereas there are other people who are actually unpleasant rude - rude because they are trying to put others down, make a nasty dig or laugh or sneer at others. I think that's a very different thing and you can generally tell the difference.

omg someone call The Mail as OP has just stumbled across the fact that some people can be rude, self centered, selfish, careless, don't-give-a-tossish, etc

Well you certainly missed the point.

I understand what you're saying OP. I once said something about my DS's (and half the class's) bully and the teachers doing sweet FA because they're good friends with his parents. He's sneaky and rude and downright nasty. (Sneaky as in, so that the teachers don't see him, he hides his hand behind furniture to give me and a few other parents who've complained about him the middle finger as we're leaving).
He's a rude, badly behaved spoiled little boy.
His mother has been known to take toys off children to give to her precious baby on the odd occasion he doesn't manage to violently wrestle the toys off the child himself.. Afaik - and I know the family fucking useless parent fairly well - he so far has not been found to be SN. When I said this I was told that I have no idea.
I couldn't possibly be privy to that information.
That he's probably not been diagnosed properly.
That he will be diagnosed as he gets older.
That I'm an insensitive cunt and he simply must be on the spectrum. Yes strangers on the internet know the family and the child better than me.

As an aunt to children with autism I do find it insulting that nasty behaviour automatically means autistic. My DNs are not nasty at all. Yes they have issues and are prone to violent outbursts but they do not bully.

YANBU but you're not really toeing the MN party line in saying this, so some people with flame your arse off. It's not just ASD, there's also a lot of armchair diagnosing personality disorders. FWIW, my son has ASD and I have mental health problems so I'm not being flippant without extensive experience either.

Not quite the same. But a little boy who lives next door to me. He's about 6/7 and has autism. The family have had to move several times in his short life because of complaints from neighbours about there family. According to the mother. The complainant are about the boy because of his autism he can't control is noise levels.
They've only lived there a few weeks. And I have never once heard him or his siblings. Apart from general children playing. I have however heard the mother screaming at the children.
She has 5 kids altogether. 2 don't live with her. And the rest are all little shits.
According to her last neighbours the kids would swear at them , they would throw litter in to there garden, cause damage to their property. But the main problem was the parents. Partying all night, drugs. Shouting, screaming, swearing at the kids.
Now is that boy badley behaved because he had autism or because of bad parenting?
His behaviour will be excused all his life because he has autism

I don't think that this thread should be used as a platform for people who think ASD is over diagnosed in RL and used as an excuse by parents of children with ASD.
Because it isn't
and
it isn't.

ASD is definitely over diagnosed on-line and its easy to claim ASD on-line.
Its not easy to get a diagnosis in RL. They don't hand them out to every parent who thinks their child should be able to do and say what they want.

Yeah...I think your issue is with keyboard neurologists.

I have a 5 year old with HFA who is usually very well behaved.

Something about the tone of your OP bothers me.I think I'll come back to this thread tomorrow.

Sometimes challenging behaviour is down to ASD but that doesn't mean it can be excused or explained away. It means adults need strategies to help the child.

Equally, quite a lot of people on MN have a little bit of knowledge and tend to use that knowledge to present as some kind of SEND expert and jump on any tread about bad behaviour excusing it because "how dare you have an issue with violence. It might be ASD" Classic case of a little bit of information being troublesome.

The latter group annoy me because I've worked for years with kids with asd and it does my head in to watch their struggles and challenges be claimed by people with zero interest in boundaries or discipline trying to justify shocking behaviour (or make themselves sound knowledgable online)

P.s Being on the spectrum in no way gives you 'grounds' to speak for everyone that might have experience with it. Just a heads up. You might also like to remember that chat forums are simply that - chat forums - strangers in discussion. No one is 'diagnosing', rather suggesting alternative perspectives to consider.

I think what bothers me about this thread is the attitude that parents want to use ASD as an excuse for their children's behaviour. In reality, most of the time parents who are wondering if their children are on the spectrum can see that they are struggling, and are desperately trying to find ways to help them. I have never met anyone who claimed a 'naughty' child was on the spectrum, but I have met parents with concerns about anxious children, or children with social issues.

Same here Areyoufree, I've met lots of parents of kids where there might be a reason and they just see it as naughty.

I have literally never seen a single post where someone links immediately links bad behaviour with ASD. This post seems bizarre and a tad goady to me.

Challenging behaviour is not the same as bad behaviour. It means behaviour that challenges the person working with the child.

I've seen it used quite often to minimise people's feelings too; dickhead husband - oh you shouldn't be annoyed, sounds like he's autistic to me. Repeat for family members, children bullying the OP's child, annoying colleagues and 101 other scenarios.

It is often trotted out tritely based on very little evidence, and IME it's rarely either the people with/parents of children with ASD who do it. When those posters suggest a possibility of autism it's generally done with far more tact and nuance.

TooGood2Be
I've seen a few. They claim to be offering other perspectives, but it's very clear that the accepted view is that there is an additional need. Anyone who says 'there may be a need, or the child may just need clear boundaries' gets shouted down with things like "oh I'm so glad you think my child's autism is because of my crap parenting" and that's not what's been suggested at all. All people are saying is that some challenging behaviour can be due to additional needs, but equally lack of boundaries, rewards and consistency cam lead to similar behaviours being displayed without an SEND need.

It's also evident in the armchair psychologists who talk about their child having ADHD, PDA and ASD without any official diagnosis other than stuff they've read online. Equally true for 'unofficial diagnosis'.
If a child is in the process of being assessed then say that. Don't claim they have an unofficial diagnosis. It doesn't exist.

Not once did I say that it's overdiagnosed (it isn't) or that parents overuse it to explain their child's bad behavior. My issue is and always has been with, as I think a PP put it, the keyboard neurologists.

To that same poster: I'm sorry that something about the tone of my post bothered you. Tone is one thing I consistently seem to get wrong.

It can be a mitigating factor so therefore can be an "excuse".

I often find myself doing a metaphorical eyeroll when hearing or reading 'suspected ASD / ADHD etc' as the suspicion usually comes from Dr Google or other, completely reliable sources.

Autism is not an excuse for bad behaviour but it does affect what constitutes bad behaviour.