to be really sick of ASD being trotted out as an excuse?

[faithinthesound]

This is not a TAAT. It's a thread about something I've seen in MANY threads. It seems like in every single thread about someone behaving badly, before too long there is at least someone who comes along all "well, maybe they have ASD".

1. ASD is NOT an excuse for bad behavior. In my experience (and I am on the spectrum myself, so I do have grounds to make this observation) most people with ASD try HARDER to fit in with social conventions, because we are painfully aware of our shortcomings. We don't always succeed, but in my experience it's pretty rare to find a blithely rude person with ASD.

1. Given my status as a person who is actually diagnosed as being on the spectrum, by a team of medical professionals (as opposed to a group of armchair psychiatrists), it is actually incredibly offensive to have this facet of my identity trotted out every time someone wants/needs to explain away bad behavior.

People with ASD are not always rude.
Rude people are not always on the spectrum. Sometimes, they are just rude, self centered, selfish, careless, don't-give-a-tossish, etc.

I have been told to "calm down" when pointing this out before. I would like to reiterate that I am completely calm, for all I am offended and annoyed with this trend. Having said that, I'm fairly certain that if I WERE angry, it would be totally justified.

But you KNOW your son, and you KNOW that to be true. You're not sitting on the other side of the world tossing out ASD as a possibility based on one thread about him. That's the difference.

missionitsimpossible why such a snippy response?

Armchair diagnoses should be avoided, yes, but I do think things would be easier for us autistic people if instead of immediately being written off as rude or odd or badly behaved or whatever, other people considered that we might actually be struggling or needing space or struggling with anxiety. We shouldn't have to wear a badge, people should just consider that there might be more than meets the eye.

I love MN but sometimes the things trotted out are and I'm not so sure it is entirely an even representation. Everyone has a narc/toxic parent/IL who they are NC with, a child sleeping on a mattress without a sheet is worthy of dialling 999 and toddlers walk 15 miles a day. Don't give it much thought OP.

I find your post utterly disgusting OP!

Yes, i whole heartedly agree. My eldest has autism, youngest under diagnosis.

Eldest is high functioning, very intelligent, kind, caring, compassionate and complex. He is also very clearly autistic, comorbid with ADHD, dyspraxia and various other things like Meares - Irlen. People tell me he can't be Autistic, because he's lovely!

Hes at a special Autism provision linked to mainstream. DH works at mainstream and has other teachers telling him how DS isn't really Autistic because hes not violent or abusive like some of them.

All people have personalities and characterists. People with Autism are part of the cohort people, they too have personalities and individual characterists.

i agree just said it elsewhere-sick of it tbh

if they explain they have asd or soe such then fine but being rude doesnt mean they have sn it could just be theyre an arsehole

I am absolutely raging at your post op!!!! you rage???? in fact I am not even going to humour you!!! you have a diagnoses of Asd?? and you think you know it all???

If someone described a child with behaviours similar to my son's I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest the possibility of asd.

This thread will descend into disablism.

I've never seen it used an as excuse. Many times as an explanation though. My eldest has ASD, (diagnosed by a team of professionals) and I have on occasion felt the need to explain why he turns to the side to talk to new people or why once he felt that his question had been answered at the farm park, he just walked off. Obviously we are working on these things but it helps all around if he has understanding while he is still learning. Otherwise he just gets labelled a rude boy.

I have seen posters explain about their child's diagnosis when an OP is ranting about a "naughty" child at school who seems to get off lightly or upsets others. In these cases the OP always categorically KNOWS that the child has no SN. I think that in this instance posters are just encouraging a different point of view and after all nobody, even the OP can know if the child has ASD, ADHD or a rubbish home life, it's just putting a different point of view. Especially for parents this is a sensitive issue and people can't help but come from their own experience and hurt so it can get a bit heated.

I have probably missed a lot of the threads you mean though. If its anything like everyone claiming to be "a bit OCD" you have my sympathy.

I get fed up of this too; it really does my head in. I work bloody hard to build and keep a career in spite of ASD and when people resort to trite stereotypes it does none of us any favours.

I also help run a childcare business and, although not always, I think if you are knowledgeable (having ASD yourself helps IMO - I think it can make it easier to understand the sort of triggers which might be driving acting out) you can often tell the difference in person between 'bad' behaviour driven by ASD and just plain old bad behaviour. It's had to explain exactly how or why though.

The thing is that if you describe the behaviours, especially in writing they sound very similar.

@muckypup73 what on earth's disgusting about OP's post? Have you been arsed to read the thread?

My DS doesn't recognise when something is not within the sociable norms so will ask /comment on what might be thought to be inappropriate in a social setting.

He is not bothered about trying to fit in - he lives in his world by his rules

YANBU, OP.

I try very fucking hard to interact with people, all day long, then go home and rethink every interaction I had that day, and replay it trying to work out if I might have offended someone, and how I could try and fix it, or what I should have said instead. Then I come on here and read about someone's DH being a selfish prick and others automatically put forward the suggestion that he's probably just ASD.

I will add though we have spent 18 years reminding him of what is acceptable but it doesn't compute!

It's nothing new I'm afraid. I have bipolar disorder - have been diagnosed for over 20 years and I'm pretty successfully treated. Most people wouldn't know if they didn't spend a lot of time with me, and I'm very laid back and easy going.

It drives me insane when people describe a friend/colleague/relative as having big mood swings and everyone hops on the bipolar wagon. Yes, people with bipolar have mood swings, but they have to last for days or weeks at a time to tick the diagnosis box. Someone who just loses their temper once in a while is not bipolar (they may also be bipolar, but that is not a symptom).

ASD is the new one people have come across. ADHD also gets bad press - I have two nephews who have proper diagnoses and they are like chalk and cheese, one has the AD heavy type and the other the HD type. Very different traits and problems.

The thing is people with autism are all different so they can't all be judged on the experiences of one person.

Exactly, actually. Which is why the seemingly automatic jump from "bit of a selfish that" to "must have ASD" made by so many people is so offensive.

To recap: you know your loved ones, and are familiar with their struggles. Explaining ASD traits with actual ASD is not offensive to me. How could it be?

But when you have read one thread about a person behaving badly, it IS offensive to immediately jump to "could be ASD". Because sometimes people are just twats. Because if it IS ASD, it's for that person's loved ones/teachers/medical professionals to diagnose, not strangers on the internet. Because every time this happens, it reinforces the stereotype that ASD means a person behaves badly.

I'm not here to vilify people with ASD or their parents and loved ones. Just to point out how offensive all the armchair diagnoses are to me and to many others in my situation.

And for the record, I have never claimed to speak for everyone. Nothing I have said has been (or has been intended to be) an absolute.

I agree OP. It's often trotted as a way of dismissing and/or minimising posters' very legitimate and reasonable responses to unreasonable behaviour.

I agree. I know very little about ASD, but I feel the same, as a bipolar sufferer, when 'have they got mental health issues' is posted again and again when someone has done something totally unacceptable.

There's a question on the ESA application form specifically for people with ASD which made me laugh.

It goes something like 'how often do you say things which offend other people or which they find rude, often, sometimes, never?'. Followed by a box asking for an explanation of how you offend/are rude to other people.

I answered 'What a stupid bloody question. If I was in any way able to answer this question then I wouldn't have an ASD diagnosis in the first place.'

I've been told that was a rude answer. To me it's a perfectly normal answer. The point being, I don't know if ASD = rude because my normal =/= other people's norma'.

It's not trotted out as an excuse, it's given as a possibility for consideration. People post for advice or opinions. Just saying "it's because he's a twat" is not particularly constructive.

Polter, I think your post is very important in this debate. These kinds of arguments come up often here, but ime it is also so hard for parents and children who are thought of as naughty/ rude without any understanding that there might be more going on.

I'm extreme though- I think there is always SOME kind of complex reason for being a 'twat'.

Autism of course does not equal 'bad' behaviour- but there are many reasons why some people on the spectrum will struggle to behave in ways that are considered appropriate and can mean that they and their families elicit unfair judgement (there are for nt people too). I welcome this line of thinking on mn and do not see it at all as thinking that people with ASD will behave 'badly'.

muckypup I think you've misunderstood the OP. She was saying she's sick of internet strangers diagnosing autism when it's usually patently clear the behaviour has nothing to do with the triad of impairments, but is because a grown (usually) man is behaving like an arse.

She's not saying autism isn't an excuse for autistic behaviour.

Being selfish or rude does not come into the diagnostic criteria afaik

I wrote a long reply and just deleted it.
YANBU.
Sometimes its appropriate for ASD to be queried on a thread or for a poster to remind others that it could be a possibility.
Most of the time it isn't.
Its insulting and offensive and adds to the negative stereotype