to be really sick of ASD being trotted out as an excuse?

[faithinthesound]

This is not a TAAT. It's a thread about something I've seen in MANY threads. It seems like in every single thread about someone behaving badly, before too long there is at least someone who comes along all "well, maybe they have ASD".

1. ASD is NOT an excuse for bad behavior. In my experience (and I am on the spectrum myself, so I do have grounds to make this observation) most people with ASD try HARDER to fit in with social conventions, because we are painfully aware of our shortcomings. We don't always succeed, but in my experience it's pretty rare to find a blithely rude person with ASD.

1. Given my status as a person who is actually diagnosed as being on the spectrum, by a team of medical professionals (as opposed to a group of armchair psychiatrists), it is actually incredibly offensive to have this facet of my identity trotted out every time someone wants/needs to explain away bad behavior.

People with ASD are not always rude.
Rude people are not always on the spectrum. Sometimes, they are just rude, self centered, selfish, careless, don't-give-a-tossish, etc.

I have been told to "calm down" when pointing this out before. I would like to reiterate that I am completely calm, for all I am offended and annoyed with this trend. Having said that, I'm fairly certain that if I WERE angry, it would be totally justified.

It is a reason for 'bad' behaviour (ie. socially unacceptable behaviour) in some children/young people with autism. Its not an excuse. I've never witnessed anyone 'trot it out'.

I don't know hat else to tell ya!

Sometimes though someone says something or uses a turn of phrase that just sets off my autdar and makes me wonder. I don't tend to post on threads about relationships but if it was about a child/teen I wouldn't hesitate to raise it as something to consider. The very fact that loads of adults are getting diagnosed shows that there are loads of people out there who are autistic and might not know it yet.

Well bully for you op.

Everyone's different. My son also has ASD and has such violent rages he gets spooked he now has to have 2 carers In public. He can also be very blunt and.come across as arrogant (( although it's very obvious he's disabled ))

His sister also has Autism, she ran out in front of two cars last week because a group.of girls walked past her, her anxiety is so bad she convinced herself they were looking at her and laughing. She also hears voices that aren't there and will verbally attack people who have done nothing. I've had to step in to stop people physically and verbally attacking her countless times because sadly to a passive observer she has no disabilities.

I think it makes a difference if the "someone behaving badly" is a DH/P, or a child. For a start, Nellifivebelly 's chart, where it suggests going for a DX, if it's an adult, they'd have to agree to being assessed. Obviously, if it's a child, it would be up to the parent to consent on the child's behalf.

I think I know what you're saying OP, I know relatively little about autism and ASD, but I know a fair amount about depression and anxiety from personal experience.
It really upsets me when someone excuses someone's behavior due to MH issues.

It's like MH issues and autism, ADHD, ASD, etc are used by some people as an excuse to not be responsible for their behaviour.
I've done some awful things whilst severely depressed but it didn't make it right I did them.
There's a difference between a reason and an excuse I think. There may have been a reason for my behavior, but it doesn't excuse it.

Could someone point me in the direction of a good place to learn about autism, ASD, ADHD please? I've read a lot on here and I'd like to be more aware as there seem to be many people in our society affected by one or all of them, it's quite often a foreign language to me.

YANBU!

Cross posted, Polter

Being selfish or rude does not come into the diagnostic criteria afaik wink'
Well it sort of does in terms of making inappropriate comments or statements. (rude rather than selfish),

Given how hard it is to be taken seriously by the professionals who should be helping it is clear there are many children who do geniunely have ASD but unless the parents know who to ask and what to be aware they are possibly looking it then the child will slip through the net. People on here don't diagnose, they offer a possible reason that may affect the concerns a poster has about behaviour and just maybe some of these children will then get the support they need if a parent follows a pathways for a diagnosis. Diagnoses are not just handed out like sweets and it doesn't stop parents of ASD kids trying to help improve behaviour. Frustratingly if you have a well behaved child with ASD it is even harder to be taken seriously. We fought for so long to be listened to and taken seriously and finally got to the right professionals. She was diagnosed with ASD and subsequently a genetic disorder linked with this. The only reason others have continued to listen from here is because they can not doubt a genetic result with a known syndrome but many ASD families are still doubted even after diagnosis by people who either dont understand or should know better.

What is for sure is that ASD is actually underdiagnosed and more children need help and support.

I've never seen anyone declare that the person being discussed 'must' have ASD.

What I have seen is people trying to help posters find an explanation for behaviour that could be perceived as twattish but could also be explained in terms of someone having poor theory of mind, experiencing sensory overload or being unskilled at reading non-verbal communication.

it is actually incredibly offensive to have this facet of my identity trotted out every time someone wants/needs to explain away bad behavior.

These threads aren't about you and your identity. They are about other people who may or may not have ASD which presents in a very different way from you.

Posters don't come on threads making these suggestions especially to denigrate people with ASD. They are offering one possible explanation for behaviour that an OP is struggling to understand.

I've never seen anyone make a diagnosis or assert that ASD can the only possible explanation. There is nothing wrong with offering it up as one option to consider.

You can't expect people to stop trying to help each other just in case you might find it offensive.

I have HFA, as does my DF and my DD.

We are all different, it manifests itself in very different ways whilst still fitting in to the 'triad'.

There is a big difference in coping methods between individuals and even the sexes.

I terrify myself trying to fit in, my DF doesn't and can come across quite abrupt and unfeeling though he isn't.

When it all gets too much I have shut downs, my DF had meltdowns.

What I'm trying to say is for some people it is a reason (not an excuse) for some behaviours.

I'm actually not bothered by people 'assuming' anything.

Because to me it at least then appears that they are trying to understand or have some knowledge of what autism is/can be and what problems may arise.

It's better than ignorance and sneering about what a horrible person someone must be.

Twisted I agree with this: "I'm extreme though- I think there is always SOME kind of complex reason for being a 'twat'." Most people soon learn that life is a lot nicer and easier when you conform to social expectations, if someone isn't conforming then there's a reason for that, sometimes the reason is autism.

A couple of years ago people were quick to label others with narcissism. In a another year or two a different dx will be the flavour.

Bastardblood that's different from what the OP was talking about though, I think. I took her OP to be referring to eg the numerous threads I've seen here over the years which might go along the lines of:

OP - I make DH's supper every single night and he never says thank you / when I asked DH if I looked nice in new dress he said not really
MNer - sounds like a selfish rude arse
MNer2 - have you considered he might be on the spectrum

That's just a hypothetical example btw, but hope ykwim

People on here don't diagnose
Yes they do.
They will diagnose ASD, BPD, NPD, Anxiety Disorder, Depression and a shed load of other things.

I can see how the assumption can be offensive, even if well meant. But from my ignorant perspective, comments like those have really made me think about invisible conditions since joining MN. Some post/ers have taught me a lot about not making assumptions and I am v grateful for that.

Beer there's a free online course running at the moment with Kent Uni/Future Learn called 'Understanding Autism', or read Steve Silberman's 'Neurotribes' for a history of autism.

Being selfish or rude does not come into the diagnostic criteria afaik wink'
Well it sort of does in terms of making inappropriate comments or statements. (rude rather than selfish),

Well yes, that's true in that sense, I was being a bit glib. I suppose I meant that alone wouldn't a diagnosis make. And maybe I did misunderstand the OP a bit, I really just thought she was referring to the kind of threads I've seen as I said above.

Thanks Polter!

I think the offence comes when autism is just thoughtlessly equated with rudeness.

I could provide a reading list Beer, but that may be a tad excessive

Beerwench some people with asd won't be responsible for their behaviour. They will never have that capacity.

Indeed Spikey, and also being responsible isn't the same as having control. I, as a reasonably independent autistic adult, can be responsible for my behaviour but I may not be able to control it.

I personally think that there are many more people in the society that are rude/aggressive etc than they are people with ASD (even if they aren't diagnosed).

It's all very nice to want to think about hidden disabilities and be sure that you aren't judging people that act in a certain because they can't do anything else (let's say someone who is swearing because they are affected by Tourette syndrome). But it's another to allow anyone who behaves badly away with murder 'just in case they have ASD'.