AIBU to think he's never going to propose?!

[PandaEyes25]

I've been with my Partner for 7 years.
We met at sixth form, went to separate Uni's, did our Masters together and moved back to our home town.
We now own a beautiful 3 bed detached home together (both have 50% share).
I am 25 and he is 24 so still quite young, I guess.
But now I feel like it's time we progressed our relationship further.
We have talked about getting married and he says that "when we get married we're going to do it properly- church and hotel reception!"
I don't think he's scared of committing or that we're too young to be married due to the way he talks about marriage when it comes up in conversation.
I've spoken to him about it and said we don't have to do it all extravagantly. We could even go to vegas and do it! (Half joking)
He says we will get married when the time is right and to stop "badgering" him about it.
I'd just love to be his wife and it kind of hurts that he has no sign of proposing!

I agree - threatening to leave unless he marries you at the age of 24 is insane. You have years ahead of you to worry about marriage and children so why would you end your relationship over it?

I didn't meet my DH until I was just about to turn 27. We got married at 30 and then had our first baby within 12 months. We are now 34/35 and I'm pregnant with child number 2. "Pushing 30" to have your first child really isn't a big deal!!

FWIW - me and my DH had a 'proper wedding' and we still managed to do it within 5 months of him proposing. Planning a beautiful 'proper' wedding doesn't have to be the long drawn out drama that some people would have you believe.

Please just calm down and stop nagging your boyfriend. Enjoy your time together as a couple because when the children start coming your life will change in a way you can't imagine.

Even though I didn't have my first child until I was 30 I still feel at times that I didn't make the most of my 'childfree life' and wish I'd done more before settling down (to use your term).

Just drop the subject OP and revisit it in a year or so. It sounds like he does intend on marrying you....but to try and force it at the age of 24 is really not necessary.

I had this with my DH. He told me he'd say no if I proposed to him, not that I would of as we are both traditional is some ways and he used to say he wanted to get married, just not yet. I also wouldn't have children without marriage. He saw marriage as a bigger commitment than children and this attitude stemmed from his parents shambolic marriage - they split up when he was about 21/22. Anyway I left it but set myself a deadline that if we weren't engaged by my 30th birthday I was moving on. He planned a beautiful proposal when I was 28 and we got married at 30. I am now 42 with two beautiful DC's and am a SAHM and I have a fab DH too. After we got married I told him he'd been on a deadline and he was very shocked.

So basically, you are young and I do understand but having babies in your early 30's is fine and if you do have problems as others have mentioned there is also time on your side. Just stick to your guns about being married first as you want to be a SAHM. No matter how your DP thinks he'd react now is no reflection on how he would act because it would depend entirely on the circumstances at the time. Enjoy your life.

I am very lucky career wise. My employer has already offered me flexible hours and has said that if I ever want to cut down my hours, even to just one day a week in the future, than that's fine. She gave me this in a contract as a "perk" to stop me from being head hunted by other companies. Very generous IMO and will definitely come in handy.
Having children after 30 with my family history is pushing it. One family member couldn't conceive at all when she tried at 28 and was told that her eggs had degenerated significantly more than it should have for her age. Another had to go through several rounds of painful IVF. I want to have the odds in my favour.
I don't think he's against Marriage, I just think he's stalling because like you all say, he's got me playing the wife so he doesn't need to make me one, I suppose.
Do you think there is anything I can do to incite him without pressure/nagging/sulking etc.?

As a counterpoint to all the posts telling you to wait, sow wild oats etc... from personal experience, it's lovely to get married and do all your conceiving in your 20s. The average age of marriage for a woman in the UK is under 30 and first birth in the UK is just past 30th birthday now. On the timeframe OP and DP have mentioned, she will probably be 28-29 when they have their first if all goes well, which is hardly outrageously young in comparison.

There's no best time, really. Advantages and disadvantages whatever you do. Different strokes for different folks. You shouldn't take any more notice of someone telling you that sowing wild oats for years is an inherently good thing than you would of someone telling you it's best to settle down early.

What I'm trying to say, is that being married doesn't make much difference to your relationship, or indeed your life.

Well. Ish.

It doesn't have to make any difference to how you treat each other, or how happy you are. It does make rather a lot of legal difference, especially if like OP you're considering reducing working hours to be at home with DC. Being married can make a great deal of difference to your life there. The DP in this scenario doesn't seem to want to hear that, which is something that would concern me.

Anyway based on your update OP, I wouldn't want to delay TTC. You're young, and ordinarily would have oodles of time on your side, but if there's any suggestion of fertility issues that changes things. I assume that's what you meant when you said you'd be pushing it to have another after 30. However I would also still be making it very clear that I wasn't prepared to have a child outside marriage.

I must say it strikes me as rather ridiculous to be prepared to buy a property with someone and have children together, but not feeling ready for marriage. If you don't agree with marriage on principle, fair enough, and if you don't want commitment ever/at such a young age, ok. But if someone is willing to buy a home jointly and have kids in their mid 20s, as this DP is, that ship has sailed!

Agree with PP "pushing 30" to have your first is really a non issue. You're a decade ahead of yourself. If you haven't got any children in 10 years and you want more than one, then you can maybe start to say you're pushing it!
24/25 is fairly young to be getting married, I would say most people I know married in their late twenties/early thirties.
DH and I actually married at 25 but we were the first of our friends and it was something we both wanted!! We had been together 3 years at that point.
Please don't pressure your DH into a lifelong commitment if he's not ready, is that really how you want to get married? I think the memory of having to talk him into it will be very bitter.

That's the problem, I don't want to talk him into it. It just pains me that he doesn't seem to want what I want more than anything in the world.

X posted with your latest update, I am a slow typer.
Have you had your fertility levels checked OP? I actually think if you were genuinely worried about infertility issues then you wouldn't be so set on waiting until after marriage. I had 2 of my 4 DC before marriage.. We are no longer in an age where you need to be ashamed of having children out of wedlock!

That's why I want to get married so much I suppose. So that I can test the fertility issues (both on my side and on his) without putting myself in a really vulnerable position.

I wouldn't be using phrases like pressure, nagging and sulking OP. You're grown ups. You have a grown up discussion about your relationship and life goals.

In your case, you both have fertility related issues/history that mean although you're still very young, you can't assume you have the same window as most people do. You are both clear you want children and you're both happy with a timeframe of TTC in 1-2 years from now. So far so good, but for you being married first is very important. Just set it all out. If he feels too young to get married in the near future, that's ok, but this decision will mean him not getting either the type of wedding he prefers or the TTC timetable he would like.

It's not nagging to talk about these things. It's adulting. You try to work out what you agree on, where you differ, and how you can compromise. You should be able to have a mature conversation on the subject. It's unfortunate that your choices may be more limited than most people's due to the fertility stuff you mention, but that's life.

It just pains me that he doesn't seem to want what I want more than anything in the world.

Just because he doesn't want it now does not mean that he doesn't ever want it. Why are you viewing it as it's now or never?

Have you spoken to him about your fertility concerns? What did he say?

They both have fertility concerns writer. If you combine that with her perfectly legitimate and sensible desire to marry before TTC, his for a big wedding and what sounds like a mutual wish for more than one child, I can see why the timeframe feels squished.

If what OP has said about their fertility is accurate (and I'm no doctor and she's not said that much) then something in this scenario is going to have to give.

Agree with others that if you both agree you're going to marry one another - that is engaged to be married. ( the diamond companies started marketing all this ring stuff - its not really necessary)

Jeez, you are not his 'will do for now' girl. You've been together for eight years and own a house together. That's a fair amount of commitment! Don't get scared by all the comments on this thread. You know your relationship, and it's your call. I don't think from what you've said that he's ready to have kids yet. That's ok. You really do still have time. You could even just do a registery office marriage if it's the security you're after.

I posted before that I'm offspring of unmarried parents (and old enough for that to be back when it was a Big Deal). I'm also pregnant, co-habiting, own a house together, unmarried and 37. I've been with my partner 8 years, but we've known each other for 20. He would have been about the babies earlier but it was me dragging my feet. He didn't give me an ultimatum, we just kept talking. Neither of us have a strong desire to get married, for different reasons. People on the internet tried to tell me he lacked commitment, too. Fortunately I trusted my 20 years of knowing him and our relationship over that.

I know that my set up wouldn't work for you, but please don't get freaked out into fretting about this when you don't need to.

Just as an aside: I'm assuming as an unmarried couple you have life insurance and a will re house ownership?

He has an enlarged varicose vein to one of his testicles (sorry TMI) and is currently going through investigations to determine whether anything needs to be done about it. I've just got a family history of not having the easiest of times conceiving.
I've tried talking about his potential infertility problems but not really sure how to go about it as I don't want to big up the fact that I'd be disappointed if we couldn't conceive because it would make him feel like shit basically. I also don't want to worry him even further as the investigations are still going on. This has only happened in the last month or two so I know at the moment he's got more important things on his mind than marriage but that doesn't explain the last year.
He does keep saying "half jokingly" that he needs to test his swimmers but I don't really know how to respond.

Thanks reetgood that's really helpful.
I suppose I am getting a bit freaked out as other people do keep asking us when we're going to get married and he just laughs it off.
We have life insurance but no will as of yet.

Thought divorce with no property/assets/DC was simpler/quicker than dealing with shared property?
I've been through divorce after a short marriage with no kids, no house and no significant assets - just a few debts and household chattels. It was awful - difficult, long-winded and expensive.
I had a house with a previous partner - we sold it and walked away.

please don't be a sahm if you have a good career
Why? What gives you the right to tell another woman what to do? What is wrong with being a SAHM? I did it for years and I loved it. I would highly recommend it for a woman (or man) who wants to and is able. Yes you need to be in a stable relationship, but that still happens a lot.

Some of the posts telling the OP to dump her bf are just mad. She's happy with him, he just doesn't want to get married yet!
OP, you have plenty of time, relax and enjoy your time together.

Hmm so this is delicate because it's all tied in with the ongoing investigations OP? Difficult. How long is it likely to take before you get more information? If it's only likely to be a couple more months, I'd be tempted to postpone further marriage discussions until that point. Since part of the reason you want to get married earlier is because of the mutual desire/need to TTC in no more than 2 years, it might be worth waiting until you're in possession of more information.

But I still stand by what I said about it not being nagging (hideous gendered sexist word) or sulking. You can and should be having a grown up conversation about this. It just might be slightly too much at the moment, in the middle of all the tests and stuff.

I don't think that would affect his sperm tbh. Different mechanisms.

Even ppl who have a testicle actually removed can conceive normally.

It sounds to me like both of you are more catastrophising about your fertility than anything else, in the absence of actual testing. Plenty of people have relatives who couldn't have kids - doesn't necessarily mean anything tbh. There is a myriad of different reasons for infertility.

Have doctors said that his issue might affect his fertility, or is that just something you/he are worried about?

The doctors have said that it could affect his fertility as the testicle has less blood flow. He also has swelling as a result which is constricting the area that stores the sperm.

@pandaeyes25 good :) I was also a bit 'ooo I'm geriatric maternity wise this could be a struggle' and we conceived within 6 months of fairly half arsed ttc.

Your relatives having problems conceiving doesn't necessarily mean that you will.

Re will - do get one done. There's various ways to get a proper but low cost one and your affairs will be simple. Also check how the life insurance is written - ours was set up with mortgage but you can set up to be paid in trust to partner. You're really low risk but for us, we didn't want to leave each other in a sticky spot with the house if one of us unexpectedly copped it.

if you liked it then you should have put a ring on it.

What a hideously retrograde way of thinking.

Do you think there is anything I can do to incite him without pressure/nagging/sulking etc.?

If he brings up TTC or children, tell him calmly that you don't want to have children before you are married and that this is really important to you. Then leave it at that. Hopefully it will enter his thick head and he won't just put his hands over his ears and go "lalalalalala".

"Do you think there is anything I can do to incite him without pressure/nagging/sulking etc.?"

Goodness, you need to back right off this. I have read your posts and you sound far too intense and needy about the whole thing. And, I suspect you are frantically concocting 'reasons' why you 'ought' to be getting married young (I think this 'fertility concern' is a bit bogus isn't it?)...but basically you just want him to propose, yes?

But, I do think that issuing a 24 year old with a marriage ultimatum is rather silly. It's obvious it's not on his radar right now, and at 24 I really don't see why it should be.

IME men are not afraid of commitment/marriage at all, but they are afraid of commitment/marriage with the wrong person.

I really really hate all the responses about op and her dps age.

If someone wants to get married at 24 why is it 'insane'

If you've been with someone for a long time and you know you want to spend the rest of your life with them it's absolutely not at all insane.

Any why on earth would you want to waste years of your life waiting for someone? I mean what age does it stop being insane at? 27? 30? 35?

What if op waits another ten years until she and her dp get to an 'acceptable age' for this ultimatum and he tells her to sling her hook or she decides to leave? I personally think waiting a few years to see if he changes his mind is terrible advice.