To think SAHM should get priority over childminders at busy toddler groups?

[HulkMama]

Just wondering how people feel about childminders taking groups of children to a free toddler group that routinely turns stay at home mums away because they are full?

It's a church run group so they don't want to turn anyone away, I get that, but if there isn't room for everyone should childminders be taking up the places that parents with their own kids need?

Childminders are being paid to look after the kids! I just want to get out of the house and have a bit of adult conversation!

Comments from childminders welcome. 😉

This wasn't Wednesday was it. I was working at a toddler group weds doing photos and the lady told me that they normally allow 40 in but because my equipment was there they were only letting 35 in.

these groups really are NOT set up with the interests of toddlers in mind. They are there for the parents and the parents alone. Toddlers do not go almost insane from boredom at home and having no other adult to talk to! Toddlers don't need interaction with other toddlers. But some most adults really do need to get out from their 4 walls occasionally while in sole charge of pre-schoolers

That's untrue. These groups benefit both. Toddlers benefit hugely from socialisation with other children their own age, to be with different people and children their own age and play at different things.

as to why you would think CMers don't ever want to talk to another adult

I think the thought process is as they get paid they can take the pain
The fact that many child minders are also mothers is apparently irrelevant.

utterly fail to see why a parent on their own with a small child all day would be any more in need of a bit of adult company during the day than a childminder with several small children
But Owl the parent has the small child all day and all night. They may still not be getting much sleep. Their role in life has changed completely. They may well want advice about their child "is this normal" with regard to feeding, sleeping, playing. Parents have different needs to childminders. I am around teenagers all day, I don't think this means I'm having the same experience as someone with a couple of them in the house.

The number of toddler groups I've been to where I've been completely ignored by every single parent there. It does make me wonder what the point it. Better than nothing I spose.

The most over subscribed toddler group round these parts is run by a group of childminders. Only dc3 went as she went to one of the childminder's who ran it. The older two never got to the top of the waiting list to go with me on my day off (nursery when not with me).

Never occurred to me to be pissed off, but I guess in my case the childminders definitely had a claim to places, and I had lots of other options.

Er that seems really out of order to me! It's for the children's interaction and development as well as adults socialising. Just get there early!

Reading this has made me really sad. My minded children love the groups I take them too. In fairness I always have to pay per child, we have no free ones in the area.

I agree there are probably some cm's out there that just go to get the kids out the house, but most of us use it as a way to see their minded children grow into independent & confident children. It's another place to teach them sharing, responsibility to help tidy things away. Caring for our community by helping set up etc. Meeting children that they might go to school with & it's another opportunity to learn things around us on the way there & back.

The trouble is too is that we have a lot of boxes to tick for Ofsted. Our houses are already child friendly, but most don't have the resources a nursery or school has, yet we are expected to meet the same expectations. These toddler groups have really helped in these instances.

It's a shame there are not more groups available in some areas. There are places that are booming with parents taking their little ones out & others that open for the sake of a few people.

I suppose what I'm trying to get across in a long winded way is that our minded children & us do really benefit from these groups, albeit in a different way to mums looking for support.

Surely all children, GP's, nanny's, au pairs & childminders can benefit from these places. There just needs to be more!

I'm sorry you got turned away but it's happened to us before many a time so we hit the park instead. It's life. The children got over their disappointment as soon as we were in the park.

Summers on its way so the positive is that we will all be out your hair soon!

*to not too

Just realised how lucky I am to live in area with an almost unlimited supply of playgroups! We have several to choose from each day (not including singing or activities, just playgroups). No queue, no turning anyone away, no need to pre-book.

But Owl the parent has the small child all day and all night. They may still not be getting much sleep. Their role in life has changed completely. They may well want advice about their child "is this normal" with regard to feeding, sleeping, playing. Parents have different needs to childminders. I am around teenagers all day, I don't think this means I'm having the same experience as someone with a couple of them in the house.

Many CMs will have small children all day and all night too.

Advice about what is normal regarding feeding, sleeping or playing is best sought from a professional (HV for example) or from someone who has considerable experience with children of that age ... someone who looks after them for a living maybe, ... like a CM perhaps??! I think your argument as to why they shouldn't be there is actually a very strong reason why they should.

TBH it is nice for the dcs at the childminders to go to Toddler groups and go out and about imo.

Where I used to live, the local free Children's centre playgroup was closed not because of childminders but because it was full of wealthy SAHM's not the deprived groups it was meant for. They felt so intimidated they didnt go apparently. So their funding was pulled because it wasn't reaching the intended groups. Maybe people should have to produce their tax returns too before they go to a playgroup?

YANBU. I lead a toddler group and at one point we decided to restrict the number of childminders (not ban of course) to 1/3 of adults (about 1/2 the children). I'll try to explain why.

For background our group has a register and waiting list, partly because I'm too soft to turn people away at the door and partly because some of the adults who need the group most are the least likely to be on time (like me). Also we consider the group to be as much about supporting adults as the kids, and I spend 80% of my time chatting/listening to adults and helping them make friends. This is especially important for new parents and is part of our aim as a church group.

The 'issue' with childminders is not the people, who are lovely and do a great job, but rather that they stay on the register for longer than parents/grandparents, and also being more kids. At one point we had ten regular childminders who had been coming for 5-10 years and brought 25kids. This is over half our maximum. There were five more wanting to join the waiting list, which would have filled 75% of the kids spaces. We felt that this didn't fulfill our mission and aims, and lonely new mums were waiting for one of the 10 or so places that came up each year. We set the limit of 1/3 adults as childminders, with a separate waiting list. The cm I spoke to understood our reasons but it was a tough decision. Fortunately numbers are lower now so it isn't an issue any more.

Owl that would only work if the childminders spoke to the parents, rather than keeping to themselves in a group.
And mumsnet has taught me not to ask health visitors for advice about anything

OP are you a member of the church? Perhaps they should give priority to members of the congregation.

these groups really are NOT set up with the interests of toddlers in mind. They are there for the parents and the parents alone. Toddlers do not go almost insane from boredom at home and having no other adult to talk to! Toddlers don't need interaction with other toddlers. But some most adults really do need to get out from their 4 walls occasionally while in sole charge of pre-schoolers
So nothing to do with the kids then?
Only reason my friends take their kids to these things is so they interact with others, nothing for them.

the reasons for running the group and attending the group can be different. I think most church groups would have far wider aims than providing a place for toddlers to interact, lovely though that is to see

I would have thought there were excellent reasons for CMs to have their own toddler groups where they meet up among themselves year in, year out. And excellent reasons to have baby/toddler groups for lonely SAHMs. The needs of CMs and SAHMs are entirely different.

I agree with Neo. Why don't the childminders organise their own groups, or gather at each other's houses? Using up resources needed by new mums is a bit selfish. Being a CM is a business choice. Many SAHMs have no choice, may not be able to afford childcare in order to work.

Going to free baby/toddler groups helped me out of PND. It allowed me to network, build friendships, get advice and support. Those free church groups are a lifeline to lonely mums or women who are struggling.

Most mums with 3 preschoolers have children of different ages. Turning up with a baby in arms, 2 year old and 3 year old is different to turning up with a bunch of 3 year olds. I'm not saying all childminders let their charges get rowdy, it's just my personal experience of one group.

NoSand your explanation can be used to suggest that childminders should be allowed in as well though. Being a SAHM is a choice just as much as being a childminder is. Presumably you knew when you got pregnant that you wouldn't be able to afford childcare, but you still went ahead and had a child. Childminders, like the vast majority of people, don't actually 'choose' to work and as much as I love my job, I'd love to not need to work at all. In fact, i'd love to have the option of not working and being a SAHM but it isn't an option for me.
I started childminding less than a year ago. You can bet I need that support group just as much as any stay at home mum. With all the experience I gain, there are still constantly new children that I don't understand, illnesses I haven't experienced... and sometimes it's really nice to moan about a sleepless night to a fellow parent! Meeting up with other childminders is lovely, but I like to consider myself a member of society just like yourself and don't think I should be labelled 'selfish' for using resources that I pay for in council tax. Also, as I'm sure you're aware yourself, children who are not with their own parents are almost always behaving well. My mindees, and those of all the childminders I know, are better behaved than the vast majority of children with their parents.
I think one of the things I've found the absolute hardest about transitioning from a nanny to a childminder is the general opinion about me. Only last week I went to a messy play session at my local play area. It was £4 entry for each child, and I only get paid £4 an hour, so I was working for nothing that hour. I had three children with me, all obviously the same age, so everyone was chatting to me and being so lovely and welcoming. I didn't realise, but they had assumed the children were triplets. I corrected them and said 'oh no, i'm a childminder' and do you know not one single person spoke to me for the rest of the class? I work 6 days a week, 11 hours a day in the company of only children. I also have children overnight three nights a week. You can bloody bet I need some adult interaction and you can bet I deserve those resources just as much as anyone else who CHOSE to have a child.

We do all those things too nosand

The children also deserve to use those resources, it's not selfish at all. Our job is to integrate them I. To their community as their parents would for it not that they had to go to work. And CMs also look after a different age range of children. Very rarely do you have 3x3 yr olds who can socialise with each other. Currently I have a 17month, almost 3 year old and a 4.5 year old.

Doglikeafox - your anecdote illustrates exactly why CMs have no place in group activities for parents and children.

these resources are not paid for by council tax, thats childrens centres (and ours runs separate groups)
church groups are funded by church funds plus on the door entrance charge usually. ours mostly breaks even, but we charge entry. it covers limitless drinks, biscuits, cakes, toast and play equipment. I usually buy quite a bit of it out of my own pocket as my church contribution, plus half the play stuff is donated.

and a fair number of mums dont pay or pay less. one of us usually makes up the difference so some are not cross subsidising others
yes, we are a bit soft!