To think SAHM should get priority over childminders at busy toddler groups?

[HulkMama]

Just wondering how people feel about childminders taking groups of children to a free toddler group that routinely turns stay at home mums away because they are full?

It's a church run group so they don't want to turn anyone away, I get that, but if there isn't room for everyone should childminders be taking up the places that parents with their own kids need?

Childminders are being paid to look after the kids! I just want to get out of the house and have a bit of adult conversation!

Comments from childminders welcome. 😉

We're talking about free or heavily subsidised groups here aren't we?

If space is abundant, then no problem, but Perhaps it would be fairer in highly subscribed groups if the professionals using the facility paid a more reflective price which could allow paid help / extra sessions?

Hear hear, shaking

I feel for you OP (but I would also get there early!)

I'm likening it to a council - run gym session.. free for anyone to use the equipment at XYZ times but with a maximum capacity.

It would piss me off if I could never get in because a personal trainer brought her clients in each week and monopolised all those slots.

shaking I don't think you understand quite how a cm business works. We have overheads like every other business. I charge £4 phone, and after all my expenses only have on average £2 ph left. We also pay tax and NI on this.
So for the hours group I attend with my mindee I make £0 as I pay £2 per mindee to attend.
This is my choice as it's beneficial to my mindee.

Actually during the day time term-time a childminder cannot have more than 3 mindees, and unless you are talking specifically about London then no where else will a childminder be earning £20 for 3 mindees! I'm on £4 an hour per child, so I would earn £12 if I was full (three children). By the time you factor in the cost of snacks, a bus journey and a paid activity later in the day I could be earning less than minimum wage.

If I wasn't full, as most days most childminders are not, then I would definitely be working for less than minimum wage

Our (Church) toddler exists to serve children and parents/carers.

The 3-4 year olds enjoy crafts and socialising with their friends.
Their parents get to chat with grown-ups .

The younger children 1-2 year olds enjoy new toys and experiences. Their parents don't get so much out of it, but they get out of the house for 2 hours and might get to go the loo on their own as we all look after each others kids, when wanted.

Babies- not sure they get anything they wouldn't get at home.
Babies mums, however, get a break, get to talk to someone who can actually talk. Get a nice cup of coffee served to them. Get reassurance that 'this' is/isn't normal. Get advice and help.

It is not just about the kids. If you are a parent who doesn't understand this, then you are obviously not in the target audience, though still more than welcome to attend.

Childminders are few around here are welcome too. (Though what they get from toddler group maybe different to parents)

Baby/toddler groups were my lifeline as a sahm. I definitely attended for me, not the kids.

You sound ridiculous. Why should children with childminders not get the benefit of playing with others, the crafts and singing that often happens at toddlers? Sorry you miss out but if it's very oversubscribed why don't you look to start another one locally?

This is absolutely ridiculous!

So you're only allowed to use it if someone deems you worthy of it, or in need of it enough? Bloody ridiculous!

The problem is the lack of facilities and resources in some areas.

It's outrageous that people are so desperate for a playgroup that they're willing to queue for ages to get in. Or for people in need to be turned away.

The answer is more playgroups not setting up some insane means-tested entry requirements. Ideally, there would be funding for groups, but if there isn't then it's something that people/communities need to sort out themselves.

OP there is obviously a need in your area. Why don't you talk to some of the other mums getting turned away and see if you can start something up?

What about grandparents, foster carers and (admittedly, quite rare) a much older sibling?

Do samhs trump these too?

Give your head a wobble, dear.

Seriously?! Yabu. My children go to a childminder while I'm at work. Why should they miss out on the wider interactions they'll get at toddler group? Do you honestly think that childminders want to be there, really?

The groups are for the children, not the adults. If you know it fills up then either get there earlier or be proactive and start your own group.

I work part time but on my two days off I have attended different groups that work in different ways

a) organised and run by a childminder. Open to all. When it's full it's full, fire regulations, sorry.

b) book and pay in advance a term at a time. Once it's full it's full.

c) church playgroup. Sign up termly. Preference given to those with a connection to the church (however tenuous - I got in because my parents went to the church), then parents, then childminders (unless the childminder has a link to the church). They appreciated an email if you knew they wouldn't go and they'd offer the session elsewhere (they had quite a big waiting list).

d) one like you describe. Church run, occasionally reaches capacity, get there on time/early if you want to be sure to get in.

If you don't like the ethos of the group you are trying to attend, look for another one.

Thank you ShakingAndShocked! I think all I really needed was someone to see it from my point of view today! I'm not saying I'm right for thinking or feeling the way I do but hey ho, tomorrow is another day.

YANBU

Toddler groups are as much for the mums as the kids. You go to socialise, share advice, make friends, arrange play dates for your child.

IME child-minders with lots of charges have their hands full. When it's 1:3 instead of 1:1 it's harder to keep tabs, so the kids are rowdier. At my local group one of the CMs brings a whole bunch of 3-4 year olds who get wild and start pushing/shoving the little ones. I don't think that's appropriate. It spoils the atmosphere of the group when kids aren't closely supervised.

I appreciate it must get lonely at times being a CM, but unless you're also Mum to a baby/toddler I think you should leave baby/toddler groups to the mums who need them.

NoSand, I'm a mum to three preschoolers, does that mean I shouldn't go either because my kids would be too rowdy?

I popped back on to say, you could ask the church if they're considering opening another session. And I do appreciate how annoying it is. Groups I attend where they tend to get full I have a rule that if I'm not ready to leave the house in enough time to get there 5 mins early then we aren't going.

I work full time and I've always used childminders as I want my children to benefit from doing lots of different activities in different locations. It's what I would do if I was at home with them. Plus I like the fact that my childminder gets chance to go out and talk to other adults just like parents. Helps break up the day and I figure if she's less stressed and enjoying herself then she'll be more relaxed and happy round my children.

Of course toddler groups are as much for the adults as the children but I utterly fail to see why a parent on their own with a small child all day would be any more in need of a bit of adult company during the day than a childminder with several small children.

What would the OP do with her child for the 15-30 minutes she would need to queue for to get there early enough to guarantee a place? Maybe the same as everyone else in front of her in the queue who has presumably been there for even longer?

I've never come across a toddler group where you just turn up tbh. All the ones in our village, including the church-run ones, require you to contact them before your first visit so they can let you know which sessions can accommodate you.

I went to the same toddler group for five years running when I was nannying for two different sets of kids. It was first-come-first-serve and very popular, and I was usually the only nanny there. After a while I ended up going to the early session with my mindees and working the desk during the second session while the mindees took their nap in their buggy, worked out very well for everyone as you could leave any sleeping child beside me to keep an eye on in the alcove while you managed their siblings.

What I also found was that I got a lot of work offers through it, mums could scope out how I looked after my mindees and I got booked for emergency sitting, holiday work and night work. The mums were happy that they had someone around who was willing and able to help out in a pinch, and the mindees made friends they wouldn't have had if I wasn't able to attend. Pretty beneficial all round.

I haven't read the full post so this may have been asked/answered. From the OP I'm left wondering why and how you know it's only childminders taking up all the places? I'm sure there are some mothers/fathers who work that have signed up for the group because it's on their day off and they know it's something their child will enjoy before pre-school

My dd (4) goes weekly to a group with her cm and other mindees. Dd loves it as does cm, they take the 3 older children for more interaction with others. My dd used to coincidentally go to the same group with me a couple of years ago but things changed and we stopped going. I don't think that anyone has any right over the next person. This group has a waiting list where if you didn't go for 2 sessions you got kicked off and someone on the waiting list went in your place.

It's also a bit off that a CM with even just 3 mindees (as obv that number can be higher) is being paid £15-£20 per hour - so £30-£40 for the 2 hours they are there - to then both utilise the services

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

excuse me while I pick myself up off the floor..

It's a long thread and I'm sure someone has said it before me, but these groups really are NOT set up with the interests of toddlers in mind. They are there for the parents and the parents alone. Toddlers do not go almost insane from boredom at home and having no other adult to talk to! Toddlers don't need interaction with other toddlers. But some most adults really do need to get out from their 4 walls occasionally while in sole charge of pre-schoolers.

Is anyone else reading this and thinking " well blow me, requesting prioritisation in a toddler group, because someone can't be arsed getting themselves there fifteen mins early"

Honest to goodness. If you can't control your toddler for fifteen mins whilst waiting with other parents you probably shouldn't be attending in the first place.

You don't get to ban those kids with working parents because getting there early is too much hassle for uou.

It really doesn't get any more selfish than "those kids can't come because I need the adult conversation and managing my toddler for 15 waiting mins is just too much effort for me. So can we ban them please"

Your thought process should not have been if those children were banned you'd have got in, it should have been if I'd got here earlier I'd have got in. Personal responsibility and all that.

YABVU
As other have said, all toddlers should have equal chance to benefit, and also, surely all Adults who would otherwise be alone with small dc all day without other adults to chat to, have the same need of interaction, be they a CMer or a SAHP. as to why you would think CMers don't ever want to talk to another adult.