AIBU to say only psychopaths support fox hunting

[lubeybooby]

the kind who would laugh at and enjoy watching kittens being set on fire (animal cruelty especially early in lifeis a marker for psychopathic tendencies)

Because it's just the same as that. Animal cruelty plain and simple.

Imagine a group of thugs chasing a terrified animal to give it a horrible death

Now imagine they are posh people on horseback

VILE

Theresa May makes me angrier every day. Disgusting excuse of a person.

I don't give a shit if you live in the country or anywhere in fact and foxes are a nuisance to you - kill them humanely if you must!

Yes, YABU.

It's perverse and disgusting yadnbu

Arrgh, the "I've watched an ex gamekeeper "queak a fox down"" should read squeak a fox down. And to those who were arguing that shooting could result in an injured animal running off to die a slow death, then I'd argue that the shooters should be more careful. This particular fox stood completely still in the middle of the field and it would've been killed cleanly. I was shocked how easy it would've been actually.

I don't support hunting and am a country dweller. I don't support foxes either. They kill lambs and all sorts of other animals. But that's nature apparently. As for feeding urban foxes

The death of any animal should never be a source of pleasure or entertainment. It is ludicrous to classify fox hunting as a sport, there is nothing remotely sporting about it.

What I know a gamekeeper who works for a very rich landowner who has never allowed fox hunting on his land, this gamekeeper has the same skill you mentioned and is a crack shot. Never had a fox problem on the land because he has the skills and humanity to manage it properly.

Red

Why not? I had a lovely piece of fish this evening. I could have eaten tofu (or seitan, quorn, tempeh etc...) but I didn't. It was a really nice (=pleasurable) dish.

I hate the thought of fox hunting but I also take offence at my neighbour who is a fucking butcher who. Hops ups dead animals for a living saying tories are scum because they support fox hunting.

Weird.

I'm talking about witnessing the actual death throes of an animal as a spectacle for entertainment or pleasure Cricket as you well know but nice try at misinterpretation.

Not really, no. I don't "well know".

Maybe they simply like the whole spectacle around it? And (depending on how they're riding etc) they may not even see the actual death throes of the animal.

I quite like fishing (one of my younger brothers used to be somewhat obsessed with it). I don't particularly enjoy killing the fish but it doesn't seem to impact me negatively either. I also really like eating fish, btw...

I imagine some hunters feel the same. (well, except for the eating part, of course. But that honestly doesn't make a big difference imo.)

Yanbu

I think the whole "what about killing animals in slaughterhouses" would be more relevant if slaughterhouses were for recreational purposes. I agree it's a horrible industry, but it does have a practical purpose. Fox culling has generally been shown to be of limited effectiveness and hunting with hounds is a particularly poor method of culling. At best, fox hunting is recreational with a miniscule practical benefit.

Further, it's clearly a cultural practice. Fox hunting with hounds and horses is particularly associated with the UK, with small amounts of sort-of-similar hunts in other countries. If it was genuinely needed, you'd expect the practice to be far more widespread internationally. But it isn't, it's just British pomp.

Also, I'm curious to know how people who seem to think foxes are fair game because they kill other animals, and don't always eat them, feel about domestic cats.

domestic cats. They don't kill lambs. although they do kill birds and should have bells round their bloody necks.

I don't know...I mean I would definitely judge and be appalled by someone who did it actually just wanting to terrify the fox and watch it get ripped apart. But I imagine most people do it because they like horse riding and the traditional sportiveness of it all and have squared the cruelty element away in their heads?

That's not to say it makes it OK, but I dont necessarily think everyone who does fox hunting is necessarily more horrible and cruel than everyone who eats meat that may have been raised and killed in conditions they wouldn't want to see or think about.

I don't hunt and don't knowanyone who does, but I definitely eat meat while being sure I'd eat a hell of a lot less if I had to watch it be killed myself every time. And I know eating animals and hunting animals as a sport isn't the same in a utilitarian sense, but I'm just talking about the subjective moral element. Both are for human pleasure to some degree.

What is wrong with foxes being killed the way they kill? It's more certain death than shooting, and quicker.

Hunting mimics predation and takes out the old ill and poor specimens (hence they didn't kill many anyway)

Since wolves have been extinct in the UK foxes have been hunted as it keeps them in balance and culls the ones who are past useful life or shouldn't breed for the good of the species. It also disrupts them and keeps them dispersed.

I don't hunt myself as I don't have the stomach for it, but li do think Fox numbers need controlling and I think hunting is the best way to achieve it

I've hunted my entire life. I'm an animal lover whose dogs sleep on the foot of the bed and who would happily sleep in my horses' stables when they aren't well - I absolutely love animals.

Foxes do not have any natural predators in this country - the lynx, bear and wolf were eradicated by humans in centuries passed - their only predators now are humans, and few people will deny that their population requires controlling.

Fox hunting, when legal, followed a season. The season ran from Oct/Nov until March and during the periods of the year when foxes were in cub and subsequently raising young cubs, fox hunting was strictly forbidden.

During the season, foxes would be hunted. A fox hound cannot physically outrun or catch a fit, healthy fox, it is not in their genetic make up. Therefore the hunted fox was a way of culling the old, weak and sick foxes and ensuring a healthy population.

It wasn't a way to wipe out a species, just to control the numbers in the most sensible way possible. The huntsman and whip control the hounds and the field are there to honour any kill - not as some blood thirsty toffs. It really isn't the torn to shreds animal you will read about in the daily mail.

What I object to is the alternative now that fox hunting is illegal. Hunting respected a season and the mating season of the fox.

The fox population still requires controlling, because foxes cause an awful lot of damage and they have no other predators.

Shooting and snaring foxes is done throughout the year. People who do this have no regard for the foxes' breeding programme. It is just as likely that a fox healthy young dog fox is shot, or a sucked vixen with cubs, as an old, weak fox.

Personally, culling the population through hunting the sick and old was much more favourable than shooting a healthy, reproducing population.

I'm quite happy to answer any questions anyone has. I'm an avid supporter of hunting because as someone who has witnessed it first hand, I know it isn't some blood bath.

Spot on frilly

They go in for it round here, and cubbing which is unimaginably vile. Foxes can't pop to Tesco so of course they pick off unprotected fowl. That's a risk we take in the country if we don't lock.our birds up at night.

Although in reality there isn't a difference between animals being killed for meat & a fox being killed for 'sport' - the starting point is that fox hunting has at least been banned. It seems illogical to me to bring it back & I've yet to see any robust arguments to support the repeal.

It is not an effective form of pest control. Even pro hunters have said they catch very few or they catch the sick & ill ones. Also, some dubious practices by hunts calls this into question too. The research shows that the more likely reason for the loss of livestock is due to poor husbandry rather than attacks by foxes (there's also evidence to show that cats are not responsible for the decline in birds). Tradition isn't reason enough to support a return & surely it's possible to keep jobs supposedly supported by hunting using other means?

I don't think hunters are psychopaths but I do think (like we all do with other forms of acceptable cruelty) look for the reasons to justify it.

Ultimately people seem to enjoy it. I'd like to think we are more enlightened & accept the sentience of animals (even those classes as vermin) to allow enjoyment of cruelty to be the deciding factor in overturning the ban.

frilly
how can you be an animal hunter and and animal lover at the same time?
There can be far human and viable options to keep the fox population under control that shouldn't involve hunting with hounds and all that. Besides, what difference does the age of an animal make to the fear It feels when you are killing it?

Just vile, frilly, no matter how you try to dress it up.

I agree it's a barbaric sport. It's more than that, it's absolutely vile to treat an defenceless animal like that, one that never even has a chance against so many men, horses and hounds. And the "tradition" surrounding it sickens me. I saw a photo recently of huntsmen in full uniform on horseback with the hounds in front riding through a village and the people were holding banners and cheering them on like it's something to be proud of. It's not. I find it sick.

Karma Most of the point of hunting isn't the kill but the presence of predators which influences Fox behaviour.