Childcare issues, I'm quite upset by this, but think I may be in need of a grip?

[ChildcareWoe]

Long story short, I've recently gone back to work and have employed a family member (A) as a nanny/mother's help.

It's come to light recently, that on occasion, A's mother basically hijacks A's time with my DD (that I am paying for) and they all go on a family day out with me being none the wiser.

When I twigged what was going on, I asked A directly and there was a really awkward silence until she 'admitted' what was going on. She is a kind and sweet-natured young woman and I hate that she had been put in this position

As you've probably guessed there is back story between me and A's mother, she is quite a strong, dominant character and treats me (and if I'm honest, A too) as though she were in some way in charge of us. She adopts a dismissive and high handed attitude with me which makes our relationship quite difficult if I 'step out of line'.

I think she is making her arrangements to see my DD (whom in fairness she adores) through A rather than me, as to ask my permission directly would requite some humility on her part, recognising my status as DD mother, and that just doesn't fit with the dynamic between the two of us.

I'm quite upset by this and think she should make her arrangements to see DD via me, not through A, but I am not sure how reasonable I am being by getting all worked up about this...

The thing is, if she ever did ask my permission, I would gladly give it and I'm sure they would have a lovely time, so the end result would be the same. I have no issues at all with the standard of care given by either A or her mother and, most importantly, DD has a whale of a time. It's just me with the issue

So what should I do? Apart from this, the whole childcare arrangement is working out so well for everyone else, I wonder if I shouldn't just suck it up for the benefit of DD? It is essentially DD having a day out with family members who love her, so what's the harm?

I'm so cross that I've been put in this position though, all it would have taken was a quick call or text to run the plans past me, but instead I feel like arrangements for my DD have been taken out of my hands.

So, do I get over myself, or say something and risk spoiling both the relationship between DD and this side of my family, and also potentially my childcare arrangements?

There does seem to be two issues:

1. Knowing where your child is and where they've been. To what degree is up to the OP and her employee. But it's perfectly reasonable to have some procedures in place. If you want to take my child swimming, petting farm, theme park, anything out of the ordinary etc then we do xxxx This is something you can and should tackle.

1. Relationship with A's mother. In this context it's probably one of those things you need to breath deeply over and practise a fixed grin. As long as you are informed of upfront about trips.

I think I know the kind of person you are taking about.

A knows it's not 100% but chooses the path of least resistance.

Meanwhile it's as though A's mother has one up on you (which she loves) as this has been happening behind your back.

DD is well cared for& treated so what do you possibly have to be annoyed about.....!!!!

Tackle it on that understanding only makes you look daft & unreasonable though.

I don't know how to resolve it. Families are tricky!!!! And breaking the agreement appears to only cut off your nose to spite your face.

Tough one OP but YANBU.

I can totally see why you are upset and think you have every right to be. Someone is in charge of your child. You are paying them and yet they are not telling you what they are doing whilst looking after your child and who they are doing it with.

Presumably A's mum (and A) know that you might object or say no to the situation or maybe change it so you are going too, so have chosen to deliberately not tell you. That is not acceptable at all.

It is up to you who your child spends time with and when and A and her mother have made the decision for you. It doesn't matter what your answer would have been. You should be informed. And the fact you weren't speaks volumes about the power play and how much they respect you.

I would be fuming.

Thanks so much for taking the time to post, there have been some really insightful replies and even the harsher ones have given me food for thought (they do contain grains of truth)

I think you may be on to something wrt A's role in this, but I think rather than being neglectful of her duties, it has more to do with me expecting too much from her and maybe giving her too wide a brief.

She is young, and has no DCs of her own and I suspect may be a bit lost as to what to do with DD during her time with her.

This is perhaps leaving an opening for her mother to step in and make suggestions that A accepts as she needs more leadership than I am currently giving?

I currently give her her suggested hours weekly (I work flexibly, so I suggest hours, she makes changes etc...). I think I might suggest things to do in those hours and say that she is welcome to make any changes if there is something she would particularly like to do, but just to run it past me first?

I think this would help all parties in the situation - what do you think?

I think she is making her arrangements to see my DD (whom in fairness she adores) through A rather than me, as to ask my permission directly would requite some humility on her part, recognising my status as DD mother, and that just doesn't fit with the dynamic between the two of us

I can guess lots of 'past' here. I agree the dishonesty or not open honesty would really piss me off especially light of past issues. Are you concerned at opinions being banded around that your DD may pick up on?

It sounds as though You feel DD is having a lovely time and is safe and cared for. So of it's the relationship dynamics ...it's hard without knowing more. I get it that it's crass that things are done behind your back without your knowledge and also you're paying for the privilege of all this.

You could always find alternative child care arrangements perhaps?

YANBU, but it is entirely A's responsability to tell you/ask about her mother and trips. If A is responsible and trustworthy enough to look after your child, she should be able to tell you.

Hmmm, doesn't sound to me like A is entirely competent to be honest if she needs her Mum to help her out...

Re her mother though, I am at a bit of a loss. This power struggle has been going on for years and is only getting worse as I get older

Might just take a deep breath and try some 'lovebombing'. I don't think she's an awful person, perhaps some work on the relationship might help all round?

Is A with your DD all the time that you pay her to be, or is A's mother actually removing your DD from A's care without permission?

Giving A more structured plans and asking her to run any changes of plan past you sounds wise.

doesn't sound to me like A is entirely competent to be honest if she needs her Mum to help her out

Perhaps not at the moment, but I see that as being my job to help her to become fully competent, not a reason to terminate the arrangement.

So you're not too fond of A's mother. A's mother is very fond of your daughter. She spends time with her when you're not there.
As a result, you don't have to entertain her and be pissed off with her domineering character while your daughter is having some really great time off.
Now that you know, what's your problem?

is she doing or has done any kind of child care / devopment course? I wonder if thats somewhere to start? If she goes onto another job she may have interiew questions about how she communicated with parents, what activties she planned for various devlopement stages. So by getting some structure in it's heplful to you both and defuses the mums influence. Are there a couple of regular classes you could ask her to attend, like local playgroup, swimming.

Is A with your DD all the time that you pay her to be, or is A's mother actually removing your DD from A's care without permission?

I don't know for sure, but I would expect they would be together, as a family (but def with A's mother calling the shots)

No formal courses, but she takes DD to her playgroups that I used to while on mat leave.

I might also print off the 'development checklists' for various ages so they have some structure to their time together.

Good suggestion, thanks for that

I know I would sell you my knuckle to have had such flexible childcare😆

I think unless you specifically say " I don't want dd spending time with your mum without your mum asking me first" then her mum will continue to see your dd. Which in and of itself you don't have a problem with. Is A a qualified childminder (Ofsted registered etc)? Is she still living with her mum?

You'll be hard pressed to find another child care setting that will let you set hours weekly on an ad hoc basis. No, not hard pressed, you won't find it at all! If this is important to your work I wouldn't rock the boat at at all- A is too valuable to lose.

Is A's Mother your Big Sister?

I think in fairness A should tell you in advance, "We're probably going to go to the zoo today with mum if that's ok?" If your DD had been unwell during the night or slept badly, you might not want her to have a full-on day, however nice it might be.

Just a basic courtesy really.

So basically you are paying a teenage (?) untrained, family member to babysit?

How old is your child?

I might also print off the 'development checklists' for various ages so they have some structure to their time together.

FFS. Seriously? As a niece of a school psychologist who decided I was the child she had never had I went through every fucking IQ test, development game and whatever shit you can get. She was insulted when I told her that any thing that she buys for my DD, including books, games or whatever that says "will improve or develop skills appropriate for the child's age" etc. will get dumped but I am getting a rash just thinking about it.
Why would you need to structure their time together? Don't you believe A can take care of your DD and give her the attention and affection she needs?

Every family I've nannied for is different with different expectations but it's always pretty much been mornings are for booked/paid for activities (gymfants, tumble tots, swimming etc) and afternoon is sleep/rest/free play etc. Maybe this way it's A and daughter during the morning then she can see her Mom with your daughter on the afternoon?

Don't be afraid of giving more structure though, sometimes a gentle push in the right direction, with clear known expectations, is all that's needed.

My issue here would be the lack of honesty on the part of A. Either she has decided that it's best not to tell you about her days out with her mother, or her mother has expressly said 'don't tell CCW about this, she won't like it' and A has gone along with that. Either way it's not ideal.

If you don't want to rock the boat, you could just make it clear to her that you do expect to know what she's been up to during the day, whether that is with her mother or not. And then let the matter go. Or you could ask that if she is having a day out with her mum, that she send you a quick message first. Then you can decide whether you want that to go ahead or not. It takes the power away from A's mother a little bit without being confrontational. You could even then text A's mother saying something of the lines of ' I hear you're all going out for a day out together. How lovely, have fun!'. I see where you're coming from and that your daughter is happy and having a lovely day, but I don't think it's right that there has been sneaking around behind your back. I think this is a way to let it continue, but eliminate the sneakiness.

Just read the OP and I know I would ha e an issue too. It's as if she's getting one over in you and as petty as that is I'd resolve it by telling her "I heard about your trips out with DD and A and I've given A my permission for it to continue during her work hours" ...

I'd just have to ensure she knew it was only with my blessing that the days out would continue or else it would fester with me.

You are not unreasonable in the slightest OP

'A' is for all intents & purposes your employee / nanny. She must ask.. or at least inform... you of her plans for you to agree.

You need to know where your DD is and with who. That is not by any means an unreasonable nor unusual expectation (from one who has had 4 nannies over the years).

OP, are you using a contact diary with A? If you are, what does it say they did on the days you now know she was with her mother?

If not, I think you should start. It will be good training for A, as she will have to use these for any other children in the future, and it will allow you to see what she is actually doing with the time.

In addition, any out-of-house trips should be cleared with you first. Ask her to start planning her days in advance and risk assessing them. Again, this will be good practice for A because she will be required to do this if she sets up as a nanny or a CM later on.

In short, start expecting her to act as a non-related CM would have to - records, planning, feedback etc etc. This will be good for both of you. A is the responsible, adult employee here, and she should be clearing her arrangements with you in that light and you should be able to expect that she will.

I suspect the lines are blurred because she's a younger family member, and that she doesn't know how to say no to her mother or even that she probably should be. I would be upset by this, too, because family trips with mummy are not what you are paying her for.

If there's a record, then if her mother starts to feature more than once in a little while, or there's ever an occasion where mother is involved and you don't know about it in the record, you have a clear measure of whether there is a problem or not.