To want to bang my head against a wall. Why don't people understand they're voting for a party, not a person?!?!

[mrsw14]

AAAGGGHHHHHH!!! I really could scream, I'm so sick of people saying they can't bring themselves to vote Labour because they don't like Jeremy Corbyn. Oh ok, so condemn us to 5 more years of Tory hell instead because you don't like 1 bloke you've never met
It's the PARTY that would be running the country, not one man and god knows what will happen in the future, the leader of the party can change!
Sorry, it just infuriates me that people can't see the bigger picture

All human organisations require leadership. Jeremy Corbyn is not supposed to be some mere figurehead representing collective ideals that will carry themselves.

BINGO! That's always the next one, too. And oddly enough, if you look at several of the other similar threads OP, you'll see there are actually teachers and nurses who say they will vote Tory.

The constant argument is "but you can't vote Tory, look at what they are doing!" As I've said, if the Tories have buggered up the education system and the NHS, Labour have been complicit by useless opposition.

It is perfectly possible to hate the Tories but not find any evidence to support the belief that Labour under Corbyn will be any better. Many people think it would actually be worse (which is a scary thought in itself).

You can't expect people to vote for Labour "just because". People will vote for them if they think
a) their politicians, especially the current shadow cabinet, are competent
b) they like their policies
c) they believe those policies can be implemented

A political party isn't a static entity. It is a written constitution, a history and culture and a manifesto and group of individuals at any given moment. It is meaningless to say that the Labour Party (or any other) exists independently of the group of people who control it.

For the first time in my lifetime the Labour Party is controlled entirely by people whose politicial views are abhorrent to me and who I also believe are incompetent. They are so entirely without honour that there is no prospect at all that they will ever give up their hold on the party regardless of how badly it does or how unpopular they are (again, a first in my lifetime).

So I resigned my membership of the Labour Party last year (after 27 years) and will not vote Labour again unless something utterly unforeseen now happens.

I don't think that shows any lack of understanding of the party/personality divide. Why do you believe it does, OP?

I would just like to put my hand up and say i hate the fucking tories and have NO IDEA which way i'm going to vote because i'm in despair at the lot of them!

I'm just trying to answer OP with an idea of the thought process which means for me that JC is 'the' labor party.

I spoke to someone that actually knows him to help form my opinion Laiste, rather than rely on biased "news"

Remember when Diane Abbot claimed that "you don't need to have a piece of paper with a load of numbers it on to have an economic assessment"

How could you a party like that with the economy?

Stop insinuating that your electorate are thick, too stupid to understand how we elect a government.
You are allienating a lot of voters.

^trust. Can't type today!

I don't think labour is a shambles because of the right wing media.

I'm not impressed with the lack of support from his fellow MPs (how difficult was it for him to get a shadow cabinet?) and don't think it reflects well on him. He doesn't communicate with his party - they seem surprised by his policies. I watch parliamentary questions and don't think he is particularly effective there. Most of all, I'm incredibly disappointed with how he handled Brexit. He gave the EU the most like warm support that I suspect he was in favour of Brexit. If he was, why not have the courage of his convictions? And why say the fight starts now after all the relevant votes have taken place? The fight started 6 months before that and he wasn't there!

There are other alternatives to Labour and you do vote for a person - your MP. It would be silly to vote Labour if your area has cons 1st and lib dem 2nd if your aim is to have less Tory MPs.

Ask a teacher, a nurse, a police officer whether they rather have Corbyn or the Tories

Have you got any figures to answer this question?

I think the problem, OP, with your argument is that it boils down to "I'm clever enough to see through the MSM, spin, electioneering to understand the real issues but anyone who disagrees with me isn't". Which is not really a very constructive political argument.

And do you really want Corbyn and the Labour Party, who don't really seem sure yet what their position on Brexit is, leading the negotiations with the EU?

I'm voting for my local MP who is bloody brilliant so yes I'm voting for a person

mrsw Ah, so you haven't actually formed your opinion based on listening to him at PMQs or McDonnell at FMQs or going to hear any of them speak in person? You've decided to vote that way based on someone who knows him? So, you've voting because your friend says X? Is that any more reliable than listening to the media you say is to blame.

I know someone who genuinely knows Teresa May personally, has socialised with her numerous times, and says she's a really nice woman. Doesn't mean my friend votes for her (she doesn't), nor does it sway my vote either.

You're really coming across as rather silly, OP.

Why would I ask a teacher or a nurse or a police officer who I would vote for? Why would I limit myself to voting in the interests of a few groups who want policies which benefit them but might not be particularly interested in policies that benefit the rest of society?

Looking after the public sector whilst ignoring the needs of ununionised workers in the private sector is one of Labour's big problems. People aren't going to vote for public sector staff to get bonanzas when they know that the same party who will do that will make things much worse for them.

Not Diane Abbot, sorry: David Davies. Who is absolutely awful, btw. And Brexit secretary.
www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2017/mar/30/eu-brexit-european-union-brexiteers-boiled-egg-david-davis-liam-fox-boris-johnson-video

"Don't you treat local and general elections differently Auntie Stella?

I look at each election individually, but the general approach is the same; just substitute the word 'councillor' for 'MP'

I'm still voting for a person.

It's only really MEP elections where it's not all about an individual candidate.

Ask a teacher, a nurse, a police officer whether they rather have Corbyn or the Tories

My dad's a retired teacher, my mum a retired nurse and I'm a retired police officer. We all despise the Tories, however my parents live in Scotland where the only opposition to the SNP are the Conservatives.

My mother was nearly in tears last week explaining that she might have to vote Tory this year because she doesn't want the SNP in.

The police don't want Diane Abbott anywhere near them. She's been a shockingly poor Shadow Home Secretary. Does anyone actually know who the Shadow ministers for Education and Health are? I don't.

I think if your political argument is predicated on believing and telling other people that you are cleverer/more insightful/better informed than them, it's time for a bit of a rethink.

so if a conservative campaigner told you that in person TM is lovely, compassionate and kind you'd vote for her instead?
We're all influenced by something, thee only thing we can do is look at as many sources across the spectrum as possible to make our own minds up. Most people do this believe it or not, it's only the brainwashed few in the Labour Party that are incapable of it.

Of course I've read about and listened to what he's got to say. Given the cuts the Tories are making to schools, the NHS, the Police I'm well within my right to not understand why anyone would choose that over their opinion of one man. Unless no Tory voters have children that will be affected by the school cuts and none of them use the NHS

I spoke to someone that actually knows him to help form my opinion Laiste, rather than rely on biased "news"

Don't you see any problem with a political party, in this day and age, not being able to get it's message outside London liberal circles?

The leader sets the tone of the party. The tone of the Labour Party at the moment is incompetence so that is why some good constituency MPs will lose their seats unfortunately and this does reduce the gene pool for selection of the next leader so they stagger from Ed to Jezza and who knows where next?

I'm a life long socialist. I naturally align with the founding principles of the labour party. Right now labour is being led by a bunch of fucking idiots.

As loathsome as the conservatives are they are currently better qualified to run this country than labour. Lib Dems still aren't a strong enough voice after the last general election all but removed them from parliament. UKIP aren't even fit to wash dishes in a backstreet dive even then I'm sure they'd find a way to be simultaneously misogynistic, racist and fear mongers and the nationalist parties cannot and should not have a majority in Westminster.

The truly frustrating bit is there are some exceptional minds in the labour party but they aren't involved in the leadership or positions of influence.

So as a greatly disillusioned socialist I'll be voting for the next best thing in my area. Sadly I know this could mean my Tory MP is re-elected because we are a marginal seat but I cannot and will not endorse Labour until they get their house in order.

The only hopeful outcome is a hung parliament like Belgium had for a few years. Shock horror this meant MPs had to work with each other for the benefit of the country rather than party gains. It wouldn't hurt all of our MPs to eat humble pie and actually do what's right for us instead of arguing like children and booing at one another.

Kermit yeah, but.. No, but... Yeah, but...

I certainly didn't agree with any of the policies the candidates actually talked about. And I'm a remainer, which is a pretty big part of it. So I don't know how the hell it happened. Maybe their candidates didn't know their own policies . I am so not UKIP.

Personally i feel you're voting for both - primarily your MP is a local issue but the party make a bigger difference overall. At this point in time I'm still waiting to hear from any candidate but the Lib Dem (we're in a Blue/Red swing seat) and have to say the LD sounds very plausible.

The cults of Corbyn and May do not endear me, but Corbyn in particular has baffled me by whipping his MPs to support the government instead of acting in opposition. My Labour candidate (whose name we haven't been told yet) will have to appear very strong for me to believe they're worth my vote with Corbyn in charge.

Of course I've read about and listened to what he's got to say

OP, what sources have you been using to read and listen? Why are they superior to what the rest of us read? In what way are they unbiased?