Seriously, is there ^anyone^ on MN who does not want Labour to win on June 8?

[cathf]

Come out, come out wherever you are!
I know it will mean you will be attacked and preached at, you will be told you are rich, uncaring and hate everyone except yourself, but will anyone stand with me and admit to planning on voting Conservative on June 8?
I can't be the only one surely? I didn't vote the Conservatives in by myself in 2015!

Politics is all about strategy. The naive bit is not believing in those things, its in thinking JC as leader of the Labour party will lead to this, surely.

Agree, 2rebecca, we are in this bloody cycle where every time the administration changes they spend a fortune doing whatever their pet projects are in NHS/education etc etc, and before we have the chance to see how effective they are, oops! We change government (or PM) and someone new's pet projects are wasting money all over the place.
Exactly. I've worked in both the NHS and education roughly over 30 years. It's not who runs it it's the fact that they change things all the time wasting money and exhausting staff. Things like the NHS IT project which was abandoned Trusts PCTs targets SATs changes curriculum changes grammar schools academies etc etc. Politicians cannot be seen to do nothing they have to make their mark. Doing nothing can be the right policy.

Even conservatives don't disagree with fair treatment, equality and your other fine principles, make.

What we are positively for is competence and the hard-headed realism that these things cost money, which comes out of all our taxes, and that this should not be frittered away on endless wild goose chases or pointless paper chases in pursuit of a better way.

Before you damn me as uncaring, please accept that this conservative voter is not saying that health, social care, and education should be withdrawn, only that the money should be spent carefully because it is not infinite. Labour governments have typically proved profligate. The last one made the 2008 financial crisis worse than it needed to be because during the years of plenty from 1997, nothing was saved or invested in fixing the infrastructure. Gordon Brown's first act as Chancellor was to remove the tax credit on pension funds' dividend incomes; this was a huge nail in the coffins of all the old defined benefit/final salary schemes that most employees enjoyed back then. All those schools and hospitals built using PFI contracts? That's why health and education are taking a beating, because the debts have to be repaid. They used a massive post-dated cheque to deliver jam then.

And the inefficiency! Most of our business comes from the public sector, including the MoD and NHS. Every project carries a separate bidding process, even within a single NHS Trust, or multiple/repeated risk assessments on identical processes, or badly defined expectations which keep changing. Much of the bureaucracy boils down to the administrators' need to justify their salaries. If complying with the rules did not take so much time, suppliers' costs (and therefore prices) would be reduced.

"Perhaps I am naive...I still believe in things like fair treatment of the sick and disadvantaged, worker's rights, equality and strong support of public institutions like education and health."
Don't be so self-righteous, make. You know -surely you must know- that Corbyn is handing the election to TM on a plate. For a start, he could have objected to it in Parliament and it wouldn't have happened.
He is not convincing as a political leader and carries too much negative baggage.
If he really cared about getting a Labour Government in, he would have resigned and let a more appealing centrist take over. Instead, he is condemning us to give more Tory years.
But you don't see that, do you, make? And you think we are all Red Tories for despising him.

Just because the country is too right wing for him doesnt make him inherently wrong.

I also want the things make wants.

If that is wrong i dont want to be right either.

Its absolutely appalling that people are vilified for wanting these things. What on earth is the world coming to?

I am jewish and will be voting for Labour. It is nonsense that jeremy Corbyn is an anti-semite.

Violet - not nonsense based on his words and actions . But if you can get past it, that's ok. I can't.

Persoanlly I don't think being critical of Israel is anti-semitic and while it is not always easy for me to see him or others like him treat terrorists with respect I understand it is vital to secure peace. The world needs people like him who are literally prepared to get their hands dirty to make peace and end violence.

I don't think being critical of the Israeli government is anti-Semitic either. Plenty of Israelis do it.
When these idiots come out with a "I'm not antisemitic ; I'm anti Zionist " whine - that annoys me. That argument is my Dad's era pre-WWII.
If you are against the existence of the state of Israel (which is what anti-Zionist means), where do you propose to put the people who live there? Which sounds pretty anti-Semitic to me.
I was brought up with great sympathy for the plight of the Palestinian people. But get rid of Israel? That's plain old antisemitism.
And Corbyn indulges people in his party with those ideas. Witness his shabby performance at the launch of their internal report on anti-semitism. If he had defused that situation calmly and firmly (apparently his personal strength) I would have had more respect for him. But no, the usual beatific grin and silence when Jews are attacked.

You do have a point Radishal and I can see why he angers people. I can't personally find any mention of a time he said he was anti-zionist but I know there were anti-zionists close to him. I sometimes wonder if some people don't quite grasp what that means and use it as an anti-expansion term?

Anyway, I respect your position but I will vote for Corbyn as he is the best man for the job at this time.

Thank you, violet. And I respect yours.

I thought Corybn has been pictured supporting Hezbollah etc?

You know that make and monkey* you don't hold the moral high ground on wanting all these things most people do!

However if the front bench team appear to be as stupid as Abbott as patronising as Thornbury and as inept and daft as Corbyn you can kiss all that goodbye.

The only people I hear defending Corbyn are kids by that I mean under 25,and that's fair enough we have all been politically naive or of course his supporters who wear Ban the bomb tee shirts and live off Daddies money.

They can spout bollocks as it really won't affect them at all anyway.

And if Jeremy is/isn't a racist Abbott is. Her comments about West Indian mothers and Scandinavian nurses are as bizarre as they are disgusting. Maybe she misspoke again.

Makes zero difference whoever I vote for, Conservatives have held this seat for hundreds of years. I'm expecting an even larger majority this time.

I'm not so sure most people want these things these days, tbh.

Essentially I want Lord Vetinari in power. He'd sort this shit out

He'd have my vote! Not that we'd need votes, what with him being a dictator, but still...

Nicemil1 Mon 08-May-17 13:38:22

If you are indeed over 25 then you should be ashamed of yourself.

Im 44, voted for Corbyn twice and will do so again in the GE, so DFOD

Ashamed of myself for wanting poor and disabled people treated fairly and given monetary stability in their life because of a disability?

Ashamed of myself for wanting Britain to be a worldwide beacon of free education where every child who has potential will be able to hopefully fulfil that potential?

Ashamed of myself for wanting people to be able to live on their wages without state top ups because employers are no longer able to take advantage of the work force?

Ashamed of myself for wanting a globally envied NHS that is owned by the state and well funded for things such as social and mental health care?

Ashamed of myself for not wanting Britain to be part of the phallic WMD's club?

Ashamed of myself for wanting to be rid of child poverty not just the child poverty target?

And the list goes on

Why arent you ashamed of yourself for wanting nurses, teachers, children, poor people and disabled people to suffer?

I'm not ashamed of refusing to vote for someone who could never deliver those things. JC will not win. He is a liability not an asset. I don't think a vote for him will bring about anything other than pandering to his unaffordable student politics.

Very eloquently put OCsockorphanage

(haven't a clue what your username is all about but your logic is faultless).

justAnotherPoster

Love as a life long labour supporter and I have leafleted and campaigned since 1982 I want all those things too.

but we won't get them with unelectable corbyn

What part of 'you need to actually win a fucking election'don't you understand.

Radishal it's just so tiring and depressing isn't it!!