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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Seriously, what was ever so wrong with the EU that it has swayed life long Labour voters to vote Tory?

347 replies

Bearbehind · 05/05/2017 19:24

As above really.

Some of the swings to Tory councillors are mind boggling.

What was/ is so bad about the EU that makes this worth it?

OP posts:
NoLotteryWinYet · 06/05/2017 14:14

We don't know much about the members though, could be tories and momentum people packing the vote. Corbyn is the best news the tories have had in years. The members have certainly done labour a massive disservice as an election winning entity.

Carolinesbeanies · 06/05/2017 14:22

"Local councils have had their budgets repeatedly cut by the current government especially in urban areas."

Excellent. We actually have someone who has access to local council spending. Ive tried a zillion times with my local council to disclose, and they refuse. They wont say where theyve diverted central givernment grants too, for example, grants for bridlepaths etc. They refuse. What we do know is that monies earmarked by central givernment, is not spent locally on what its intended. They refuse to disclose how much they spend in consultancy, for example. They persist in closed door meetings, and refuse any open, public, accountability.

Can you share your particular council with us Everytimeref, as Im sure theyll be representative of a raft of councils and we can get some idea of the book cooking they get up to? Genuine request.

BBCNewsRave · 06/05/2017 14:36

Tinfoil The hard core Labour voters would vote for a goat with a red rosette, but those of us who are more centrist wouldn't ever dream of it.

I'm a goat-voter then I guess... Shock Grin
I'd rather a goat than the Tories though, that's the thing. Lesser of two evils, if you like. If the choice was Tory or Nazi I'd vote Tory, of course.

GreatGumboots · 06/05/2017 15:12

Indigo ...the number of Eastern Europeans in many places have gone from pretty much Nill to xx and people notice people talking in different languages in areas where that was not so common.

This is a marked change from previous waves of European migration to the UK such as from Italy, Portugal and Spain. This, sadly gets many people's back up. Why? Because it's change, change form what people are familiar with and know how to navigate and in a sense xenophobia, the fear of strangers.

Hmm

This doesn't help address the actual issues at hand, just writing people off as xenophobic and ignoring legitimate (if sometimes misguided) concerns.

I grew up in a multicultural area, had BME friends, didn't really "see" race or nationality (aside from subconcious biases I presume), very liberal lefty type unbringing, and was shocked on moving elsewhere and discovering people actually expressing racist views.

However, when there was a surge of Eastern European immigration to this town, it was obvious, and the impact I personally noticed was on housing - it was already tight but became virtually impossible. Really was an obvious drop in the number of places to rent (especially in shared houses as I was at the time). Bearing in mind I experienced homelessness during this time, it did grate somewhat. There was also an impact on the area I worked in (care) - the care homes locally were full of Eastern European staff and the managers preferred them over qualified British staff who actually gave a shit about the job, because they were young and up for working 60hr weeks for a couple of years (oh, only British people are so lazy for only wanting to work 40hrs, I suppose Hmm, although some of the EE staff were so lazy they were at work long hours but avoiding doing as much work as possible). A lot going on there, not least the fact that care was/is so low paid I presume they started hiring from elsewhere as they couldn't get the staff, but it seemed to have gone way too far.

It's not "change" bothering a lot of people, it's the negative effect of their lives that no-one seems to give a shit about. I didn't dislike any of my colleagues for not being British, couldn't give a monkeys about that in itself. But I did care that I went through homelessess and some extremely dodgy living situations, and that I struggled to find work. (And that unsuitable people were getting jobs as carers, when all they wanted was a job in UK.)

But no-one seems to want to address these things. I was a Remain voter, btw, but it boils my piss that others dismiss people's struggles as xenophobic because they don't fit a nice simple black-and-white narrative.

vitaminC · 06/05/2017 16:55

This struck a chord with me.

I won't be voting labour, because I don't want a known anti-semite running the country.

I would probably have voted LD, but I don't want an outspoken homophobe in charge either.

So it will have to be Tory - for the first time ever. I by no means agree with all their policies, but it is far more important to me not to support the bigotry and extremism which is rampant in the other major parties right now.Sad

TheMonkeyandthePlywoodViolin · 06/05/2017 17:03

So youre OK with them scrapping the Human Rights Act?

LittleLionMansMummy · 06/05/2017 17:07

That makes very little sense when you look at the voting record of Theresa May though vitamin or other leading Tories, which is very bigoted (e.g. against equal rights/ marriage for gay couples).

Nicemil1 · 06/05/2017 17:23

How anyone one seriously could vote for Corbyn Abbott etc to run the country is just beyond stupid. They are beyond stupid and hopeless.

Weep for my Labour Party

LittleLionMansMummy · 06/05/2017 17:23

And just to add that the extremists are rife within the Tories - where else have UKIP voters gone? It's the same story - not everyone who voted UKIP or 'Leave' is racist, but you can bet your life all racists voted 'Leave' and UKIP. And now they've migrated to the Tories to ensure the job is finished properly.

CopperRose · 06/05/2017 17:44

It's the same story - not everyone who voted UKIP or 'Leave' is racist, but you can bet your life all racists voted 'Leave' and UKIP.

That statement is bollocks.
There are many racist Remain voters & racist non-UKIP voters.

So youre OK with them scrapping the Human Rights Act?

Are the Tories scrapping the Human Rights Act?
I was under the impression it was being transferred in its entirety - no scrapping/tearing up of/diluting etc.

LittleLionMansMummy · 06/05/2017 17:56

Therefore Copper voting for the Conservatives as vitamin plans to do, on the basis that extremism and bigotry is rife in other parties, is still somewhat naive given that a good number of Tory voters (and MPs) are also extreme or bigoted.

captainproton · 06/05/2017 18:08

What I don't understand is why it doesn't bother labour supporters that there are senior members of the party who have anti-Semitic views. Christ it's not long ago we had the nazis, and there are people who suffered awfully under Hitler still living and breathing, witnessing the casual antisemitism.

If it was islamophobic behaviour I bet there would be more done to put an end to it. Is it because Jews are perceived as rich? Is it because they have been the worlds scapegoat for centuries?

There is quite rightly pressure put on UKIP to rid themselves of racists. But when the boot is on the other foot?

And getting cosy with terrorists. I don't deny the cause is genuine but the method of political action should be wholly condemned, yet because it's the Labour Party, the self-styled champion of all minorities it's just brushed aside.

Why is the sodding EU more important?

NotTheDuchessOfCambridge · 06/05/2017 18:17

I voted for Brexit, I also voted Labour. No correlation. I don't like the policies of the Tories but I like May, I have no faith in Corbyn (his comments on Trident in particular) yet I prefer the policies of Labour. Imagine my torment every time there's a vote!!!

CeciledeVolanges · 06/05/2017 18:32

How stunningly ignorant CopperRose

CeciledeVolanges · 06/05/2017 18:33

The Human Rights Act doesn't need to be transferred as it is to do with the Council of Europe and the European Convention on Human Rights not the European Union. The story manifesto commitment is expected to be to scrap it once Brexit is "over".

CopperRose · 06/05/2017 19:28

How stunningly ignorant CopperRose

Gosh! Stunningly** ignorant!
You flatter me!

So do furnish me with actual, real, verified proof that 'the Tories are going to scrap the Human Rights Act'.

Not 'are widely expected to' or similar.
Actual, real, verified proposals to do so.

Thanks ever so much Cecile....

vitaminC · 06/05/2017 20:24

Captainproton said it much better than me:
"What I don't understand is why it doesn't bother labour supporters that there are senior members of the party who have anti-Semitic views. Christ it's not long ago we had the nazis, and there are people who suffered awfully under Hitler still living and breathing, witnessing the casual antisemitism."

BBCNewsRave · 06/05/2017 21:19

vitaminC I won't be voting labour, because I don't want a known anti-semite running the country.

I would probably have voted LD, but I don't want an outspoken homophobe in charge either.

So it will have to be Tory - for the first time ever. I by no means agree with all their policies, but it is far more important to me not to support the bigotry and extremism which is rampant in the other major parties right now.

Oh yes, much better to have a party that kills off the disabled.

Why the fuck do Jewish people and gay/lesbian people matter more than other disadvantaged groups? Seriously? Not saying that anti-semitism or homophobia is ok, but it seems to be treated disproportionately. (Plus, Tim Farron voted in favour of gay marriage... seems this stuff gets blown way out of proportion. Not that I'm voting for him.)

optionalrationale · 06/05/2017 21:42

Today 17:03 TheMonkeyandthePlywoodViolin So you're OK with them scrapping the Human Rights Act?

Yes. We did fine without it. It is duplicative of protections we already enjoyed. We certainly don't need to be lectured on human rights by the Germans and French.

Anon213 · 06/05/2017 21:57

Plus, Tim Farron voted in favor of gay marriage
Lets put this fake news to bed. Tim Farron did NOT vote for gay marriage. He ABSTAINED.

When it came to the vote to put gay marriage into law, Tim Farron was among nine Lib Dem MPs who abstained at third reading of the marriage bill – which was carried by 366 votes to 161 in May 2013.

CopperRose · 06/05/2017 22:40

*Oh yes, much better to have a party that kills off the disabled.

Why the fuck do Jewish people and gay/lesbian people matter more than other disadvantaged groups? Seriously? Not saying that anti-semitism or homophobia is ok, but it seems to be treated disproportionately.*

I think it is you who is being disproportional tbh BBCNewsRave.

The Conservative party do not 'kill off the disabled'. This is hyperbolic nonsense.
Conversely, anti-semitism, racism & homophobia are very real things.

Give me a real, tangible example of a Tory killing off a disabled person (not just a link to an online list of people with mental health problems who have chosen to end their own lives).
I could give you real, tangible examples of anti-semitism, racism & homophobia in other parties.

BBCNewsRave · 06/05/2017 22:56

Copper The Tories refuse benefits to disabled people, expecting them to live off air. They cut mental health services too. People die because of these things.

Why does homophobia, racism etc matter, but this appalling treatment of disabled people doesn't? I don't get it. Does it make a difference if we call it disablism?

It's as if certain words are buzzwords - "homophobia" and "antisemitism" being two of those. Like a religious ideology where people just glaze over and blindly go along with it without stopping to think why. Because if they thought critically about it, they'd understand other injustices are just as important, even if they don't have catchy buzzwords.

Your own post shows a disgusting attitude towards those with mental health problems (which I'm sure you know are more common amongst disadvantaged groups, but who gives a shit, eh? Not the Tories!)

CopperRose · 06/05/2017 23:06

Why does homophobia, racism etc matter, but this appalling treatment of disabled people doesn't?

Appalling treatment of disabled people does matter, absolutely.
But saying that Tories 'kill off the disabled' is untrue.

Your own post shows a disgusting attitude towards those with mental health problems (which I'm sure you know are more common amongst disadvantaged groups, but who gives a shit, eh? Not the Tories!)

I have posted before that I am a single parent on ESA, I have bipolar & a chronic health condition that will only get worse.

So why don't you take a break from your outraged liberal hand-wringing and be less histrionic?

CopperRose · 06/05/2017 23:11

Your own post shows a disgusting attitude towards those with mental health problems (which I'm sure you know are more common amongst disadvantaged groups, but who gives a shit, eh? Not the Tories!)

Actually, a chronic overshare that I will probably regret tomorrow - in my Tory constituency, and my Tory-led council ward - yesterday I got an appt with the mental health crisis team within 2 hours of visiting my GP.

Last week I spoke to a really helpful person on the ESA helpline about my payments, and I got assessed & put straight onto ESA without appeal 2 yrs ago when I lost everything.
No dramas at all, no nasty Tories out to get me.

I realise my experience is just my experience, and that others have been treated appallingly, but that does not mean that 'Tories Are Killing People'.

InfiniteSheldon · 07/05/2017 00:10

poster CopperRose thank you for sharing, my experience mirrors yours. I am sorry for the level of abuse you are receiving Flowers