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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Seriously, what was ever so wrong with the EU that it has swayed life long Labour voters to vote Tory?

347 replies

Bearbehind · 05/05/2017 19:24

As above really.

Some of the swings to Tory councillors are mind boggling.

What was/ is so bad about the EU that makes this worth it?

OP posts:
TheMonkeyandthePlywoodViolin · 06/05/2017 10:42

Corbyn is a Brexiter and May was actually a Remainer.

AndIndigo2 · 06/05/2017 10:46

OP, here what I think.

People voted Conservative because:

  • Corbyn
  • Austerity : due to Austerity under Tori rule many people's lives have become poorer in the economic sense but also in terms of having a purpose a sense of belonging and pride in ones own achievements. Barriers to accessing higher education (high uni fees) mean that fewer people are in a position to further themselves and access decent, interesting, and well paid jobs. Whilst Toris have been underinvesting in public services and in general, the number of Eastern Europeans in many places have gone from pretty much Nill to xx and people notice people talking in different languages in areas where that was not so common.

This is a marked change from previous waves of European migration to the UK such as from Italy, Portugal and Spain. This, sadly gets many people's back up. Why? Because it's change, change form what people are familiar with and know how to navigate and in a sense xenophobia, the fear of strangers.

The likes of Daily Mail, Sun and Express keep fuelling these sentiments relentlessly. One would be forgiven to think that xenophobia is their maxim. Individuals behind the scenes (e.g Aaron Banks) sponsor these Publications because they seem to be doing very well indeed with a large readership. However in the era of free Internet News, the money to run and expand these Publications must be coming from somewhere. It would be interesting to know what string are attached to these commercial sponsorships? Why does the Daily Mail not have o ask readers for donations as the Guardian is doing? What's the agenda and who is pulling the strings? I know that online advertising plays a large role but what else?

In an era of Austerity where the public becomes increasingly disempowered and disadvantaged people very much love hearing they are special because of the simple fact that they are from a particular nation or race. Without having to do anything yourself, you are elevated to 'special', quite seductive for many. And the people who are 'not from here' e.g. speak forrin are easily framed as a threat to ones status quo. Basic psychology of envy and mistrust.

Nationalist sentiment went down very well in 1920s and 30s Germany because Germans were poor and struggled on a large scale. They had lost a horrible war and their national pride was injured, the economy on its knees, very bleak situation for many Germans. Therefore it must have been music to people's ears to hear Hitler say they were special simply because they were Germans because even the poorest, least educated and least productive people could identify with that elevated 'specialness' it was a free feel good message for all and transcended scowl class to boot.

The Jews (and Socialists etc) were framed as scapegoats (this was easy due t a long history of anti-semitism in Europe) and all the perils of the Germans were blamed on these singled out populations.

Something eerily similar has begun in the UK. We have still not seen the worst of it. When the UK drops out of the EU without a solid trade deal and working- as well as middle classes will feel the pinch, education will have changed beyond recognition (half privatised, reduced school hours) and free health care a thing of the past, people will feel the rage. Guess who they will turn against with a little help by the tabloids?

Mark my words, the loss of the NHS, education and economic downturn will be blamed on the EU. It will be a piece of cake to make the British public believe that the EU not giving us full access to their market and expecting us to pay a fair exit fee is to blame for the drop in quality of life.

And this my friends will lead to some very unpleasant conflicts which I dare not predict.

Corbyn

Corbyn is a Brexiteer. He doesn't appeal to the country's electorate. He is not a strong leader, stubborn and very niche. The tabloids don't support him and he has no chance in hell to win an election.

Apologies for the long post rant.

Carolinesbeanies · 06/05/2017 10:48

"I think being a life-long supporter of anything shows ignorace and bigotry. "

Id agree with that, which is why, accepting u turns on election manifestos, is not only appalling behaviour, but should be legislated against. In any other sphere, its fraud, yet weve got so used to the last 20 years of manifesto duplicity, we just accept it, and fall back in the old identity politics.

If we forced our political establishment to stand by what they promise an electorate, we'd start to produce genuine politicians, and genuine governance. We cant rely on a 'single honourable' man/woman, if the systems supports duplicity.

CopperRose · 06/05/2017 10:50

I don't understand why people would shift their vote from Labour to Tory either. If you do one of those quizzes that matches your beliefs and values to party policies (like <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=uk.isidewith.com/" target="_blank">http://uk.isidewith.com//** ) I can't see how you could end up with a choice between Labour and Conservative at the top.*

noblegiraffe, my sidewith results put me ahead on Tory/UKIP but Labour & Lib Dem were not too far behind.
I came out as 'centrist' overall and overlapped with all the parties on different points:

Tory - 64%
(Foreign policy, health care, immigration)

UKIP - 61%
(Education, foreign policy, healthcare)

Labour - 54%
(Education, transportation, immigration)

Lib Dem - 54%
(Education, transportation, healthcare)

NoLotteryWinYet · 06/05/2017 10:59

I think those that can't understand vote switching don't fully comprehend how much Corbyn's top team is loathed. As I've said, some of his policies could be vote winners if well explained, but it's the rhetoric of comic after hard working people, sabre rattling against business, Stalinist disregard for disagreement in his own party.

I don't think Corbyn and McDonnell are people with any regard for capitalism, markets, globalisation or the world as it is today.

It's a crying shame that we don't have a Burnham or a Cooper making a positive case for well thought out tax rises to provide better NHS/education/benefits policies, and instead we've got this crew.

NoLotteryWinYet · 06/05/2017 11:02

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't trust Corbyn et al to deliver anything except chaos. I don't love May or the tories but after Brexit in 5 years hopefully we'll get a labour landslide with a good leadership team.

NoLotteryWinYet · 06/05/2017 11:04

I don't regard Corbyn and McDonnell as the Labour Party, ultimately, they've somehow staged a coup and are the tail wagging the dog. It's not my party at the moment, they're trying to destroy it from within and some of their politics and tactics are undemocratic and scary.

AndIndigo2 · 06/05/2017 11:04

The point I was trying to make is that the Conservative party has systematically, persistently and successfully disempowered the Britsih people.

The Tabloid is purposefully feeding people's sense of being disadvantaged and disempowered. Even people who are still doing ok under Tori rule have bought into this sense of being threatened and disadvantaged (being threatened by forriners who steal our jobs, council houses, healthcare, school places and being threatened by leftish liberals who don't do with traditions) .

Now that the Bristish people feel and in many cases are in actual fact disempowered and disadvantaged they look to a strong leader that reminds them of the stability of an era long gone where Britain was a Colonial ruler and could get away with demanding without conceding. Theresa May represents that type of leader (she isn't it in reality).

Divide and rule has worked very well so far. We'll know in 5-10 years who comes out on top. Sad

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 06/05/2017 11:35

Traditionally when? All the left wingers I know (almost all my acquaintance) are very pro EU

Tony Benn was anti EU. Traditionally the left was anti the Common Market as it used to be.

From a Scottish perspective Corbyn is a disaster for Unionists.

noblegiraffe · 06/05/2017 11:53

Interesting results, Copper! I wonder if that is what a previous poster was talking about when they talked about economic and social conservatism.

NoLotteryWinYet · 06/05/2017 12:01

if Davidson started putting forward some more moderate Scottish Tory policies and distancing herself from the central party on some issues around benefits and funding cuts (which scotland anyway has better protection to be able to do), i think we might see a real shift.

Anon213 · 06/05/2017 12:48

Been Labour since Thatcher & voted leave but now feel I have to vote Conservative.

1st of alI want to leave the EU with a good deal. Cant work out what Labours position on Brexit is, it seems to want to leave but still stay in. Confused I think May will get us a good deal, JC definitely not.

2nd Corbyn, McDonald, Thornbury and Abbot all seem like Telly Tubbies, I couldn't risk that they would ever be running our country

3rd It scares me the way Labour is promising to spend money like there is no tomorrow. The top 1% is already paying more than a quarter of all income tax, I just dont believe they will happily hand over more and more.

4th I dont get why JC is so pro Russia and anti NATO, I dont want the UK to give up its nuclear subs.

5th The Conservative have taken me out of income tax.

AmberLin · 06/05/2017 12:59

Labour has been running our area into the ground for decades. People want change. We're willing to be brave and vote differently. They've never done a thing for where we live, just take take take. The Labour candidates are never actually from here, usually misplaced posh people who have no idea what it's like to be poor or to have to put your kids in a shit school because that's all you have there, when they send their kids off to private school. Labour is so disconnected with its core voters it's unreal! The labour voters on my fb are all very comfortable, white, loud, very privileged folk who wouldn't step foot in an actual real Labour constituency for fear of being mugged.

AmberLin · 06/05/2017 13:06

...Yet all you hear from them how terrible it is living in a Tory safe seat.... come and live here for a week then tell me you think living in your middle class rural market towns is so terrible! Come and look at our local schools, our waiting lists for GPs, dentists, hospitals. Not willing to waste another vote on Labour. The EU ref has just given us hope that change is possible.

noblegiraffe · 06/05/2017 13:11

The Tories have been in charge for 7 years, why would a vote for the Tories be a vote for change?

CopperRose · 06/05/2017 13:15

Interesting results, Copper! I wonder if that is what a previous poster was talking about when they talked about economic and social conservatism.

Totally me-railing Grin

noblegiraffe, here's more info on the breakdown of 'my political themes':

Protectionism (moderate)
Unilateralism (moderate)
Pacifism (strong)
Collectivism (moderate)
Secular (moderate)
Keynesian (extremely)
Big Govt (extremely)

And a pic of where I lie on the spectrum too...
I suspect there's more like me than not tbh, no particular party allegiance or complete ideological 'fit' - I like a pick & mix of various stuff across all of them.

Seriously, what was ever so wrong with the EU that it has swayed life long Labour voters to vote Tory?
TheMonkeyandthePlywoodViolin · 06/05/2017 13:17

How are Labour running the country into ground when havent been in power for 7 years?

They ARE powerful it seems.

Everytimeref · 06/05/2017 13:30

Local councils have had their budgets repeatedly cut by the current government especially in urban areas. Unfortunately the local council is blamed for the issues not the government and so locally think they are voting for change when they switch to a different party.
When the Labour party had a landslide victory in 1997, they had just lost most of the local elections to the Tories.

specialsubject · 06/05/2017 13:51

I also don't understand what is happening - but being a lifelong x voter does rather indicate dogma. Not good.

specialsubject · 06/05/2017 13:52

amberln fear not, we have all that in our Tory safe seat.

Nicemil1 · 06/05/2017 13:55

Well do you want Dianne Abbott to be Home Secretary. The woman can't do nafiv maths and didn't know what capital gains tax levels were.

Corbyn as PM and that says it all

and Thornbury as foreign secretary who didn't know the name of the French Foreign minister.

It's like an episode of yes minister.

That's why people are voting Tory.

makeourfuture · 06/05/2017 14:01

they've somehow staged a coup

Jeremy was elected leader - twice.

Anon213 · 06/05/2017 14:05

Is JC the extended version of the sequel to the longest suicide note in history?

TinfoilHattie · 06/05/2017 14:08

Saying it's all about the EU is too simplistic.

In Scotland, it's because the Conservatives are marketing themselves as very, very pro-union and anti-independence. That is hugely appealing to people (like me) who despise the SNP. Kezia Dugdale has ummed and ahhed and flipped and flopped over independence and is not convincing.

Also Jeremy Corbyn is just a shambling joke. Him and Abbot running the country? As if. The hard core Labour voters would vote for a goat with a red rosette, but those of us who are more centrist wouldn't ever dream of it.

noblegiraffe · 06/05/2017 14:10

Hah copper you are the perfect floating voter!