This is a goady thread

[cannotbelievethistoday]

I have private school for my children. I own my house outright. I have private medical insurance. I have savings in the bank. I own a second property outright which is let out. I go on many many holidays a year (approximately 6-8). The absolute devastation that the tories are reaping on public services will largely pass me by.

I vote labour.

WTF do people without money (and all the things outlined above) vote Tory? THEY ARE NOT ON YOUR SIDE. THEY DON'T CARE. I see people without any of the aforementioned luxuries cheering about voting someone in who will have a guaranteed negative impact on their lives.

Off to find a wall to bang my head on.

AIBU to say I don't care that this is a goady thread.

(You can say I am troll but mumsnet will confirm I have been a member for years.)

I do struggle with what to do. I think Corbyn is unelectable and couldn't trust him at all. I also can't bear the way the Torres don't care about the basic fabric of our society. They rip things up that have been working well for years because of their ideological beliefs. For example selling off social housing so there's none left for anyone to live in. Reducing taxes for people who don't need tax cuts. Privatising for the sake of it with no defined benefit for the consumer. Cancelling grants to voluntary groups and paying private sector to do the same thing for the same money but less well. But I also lived through the Labour Party and there was so much self enrichment in the public sector. I have a family member who works in local government in management and even they say they were being paid far too much (I'm not saying this was the case in all public sector jobs!). And I used to work in the public sector and the managers used to regularly pay for days out in swanky hotels with no consideration for the fact that it was tax payers' money.

Corbyn definitely wouldn't reverse Brexit. He was part of the problem it passed because he was so lukewarm in his support.

But on balance I couldn't vote for Theresa May if I was struggling financially. Why would you? Whatever she says she doesn't care about you and doesn't believe in society.

Motherhood. Re the volunteering. People volunteer because society is leaving their neighbours behind. Then they vote to make them even further behind. It makes no sense. Poor people voting tory are good people making bad decisions.

Most of the people I know who volunteer with me at our local hospice are fully paid up members of the local conservative party - go figure!

I'd expect those trying to raise a family on zero hours contracts and the minimum wage haven't much time for volunteering anywhere. The number of people making benefits a lifestyle choice is minute compared to those trapped in working poverty.

If the state should only intervene in matters of life and liberty do you think there should be no provision of State education then? Just what can be offered by the volunteers from the 'fully paid up members of the Conservative party'....

Also, voting Labour is not "virtue signalling" ffs. Maybe some of us honestly believe the world will be a better place if we all plod along together with good schools and decent healthcare, and not just if I and my loved ones alone have access to these things.

And not all of us vote for lower taxes for ourselves.

Anyone seen the map between areas where private health care is the norm and Labour voters?

Because Jeremy Corbyn is a twat

YANBU. However, I think local elections are somewhat different to national elections. I vote on local issues and personalities, not party politics.

I have never voted Tory in a national election and can't imagine that I ever would, but I have voted Tory in a local election. Where I live, we have independent options who usually do well, but last year I voted for the Tory candidate in my local election purely because the independents were in favour of a "new town/village" down the road despite brownfield sites being available. That issue has now largely gone away, thankfully.

Yesterday I would have voted for a Tory candidate too, as he has been far more high profile than any other candidates I have seen and actually does something for the community. I see beyond the colour of the rosette and the tribal politics. However, he wasn't standing in my ward, so this time I voted for the independent.

So there are complex reasons for people voting Tory - it's not just blind tribalism. Not with everyone anyway.

For the GE, I live in a safe Tory seat. I'll vote Libdem, but my vote won't count.

WTF do people without money (and all the things outlined above) vote Tory?

One word answer. Immigration.

No further discussion necessary.

YANBU

My parents are pensioners who rely heavily on public services and DF votes Tory (DM doesn't vote - grrrr). DF has this hangover from the 70s/80s where he thinks Labour and the Unions were trying to push him out of a job by stopping him working himself to death for peanuts or something. Plus they read the S*n so not much hope there.

Still complain when they can't get a doctors appointment though!

YANBU. I think as PP say part of it is the difference between macro and micro economics. Also people like to assume they will not need public services, help, etc. I think it is very difficult to truly understand what makes people tick though and why they make the decisions they do.

Unfortunately Labour have gone out of their way to appear incompetent which doesn't help of course.

Most CEOs in Nordic Countries are appalled at the disparity in wages between those at the top and those at the bottom in other countries. They are very happy to pay the taxes for the greater good of society.

The biggest defrauders are those who avoid paying tax and those who evade it.

MulledWine Your vote does count as a percentage overall. Every vote matters.

24HourTrainer I'm afraid it's you who sounds like a snug pain in the arse.

I was raised on Merseyside through the Thatcher years. We go no help when the manufacturing industry collapsed and left my father unemployed for years, she sheltered the perpetrators of Hillsborough (my father and brother were both there) she led 'Care in the Community' which indirectly resulted in my Uncle being murdered so for fucks sake please don't try to extol the alleged fucking virtues of Thatcher to me.

The Tories are and have always been only out for themselves and their wealthy mates. See 'The Nordic Model' for actual evidence that socialism benefits the most of society.

I have a disabled child.

She will never be independent. Her existence will depend on the state. I am terrified about what will happen to her.

I have been told by a Tory voter (who is poor and reliant on the state herself) that my fears are 'hyperbolic'.

Even when we both personally know a man who was made fit to work, as he was dying, because he took too long.

He spent the last months of his life in misery, struggling and in fear for his young family as his money was stopped.

He had worked all of his life until he became very ill.

She still thinks it will be better for the poor if all the immigrants go.

That's the kind of disconnect you are fighting against.

YANBU at all.

@herethereandeverywhere

We go no help when the manufacturing industry collapsed

What help did you want? The country was nearly bankrupt and couldn't afford to prop up failing industries.

Just to confirm, I can't extol the virtues because you swore at me?

What is going so wrong that people are voting conservative then?

Because of these people are very educated people (although a lot of London friends keep referring to the North as the 'ill-educated minority' which is simple not true and actually reflects badly on themselves)

You have failed to goad me because YANBU. I am as dumbfounded and horrified and angry as you

It feels like we are returning to the very worst of the 80s - its all about division and hatred and selfishness again. I am very sad

I simply can't imagine why any sane person would vote to have corbyn as the prime minister, and his shadow cabinet is laughable. The party is at each other's throats and none of them are behind their leader. The bottom line is irrelevant of polices the government has to have basic competencies and unity and labour simply don't have that. At this stage they are not fit to govern the country nor manage brexit. It would be an unmitigated disaster. They need to take time and get themselves sorted. Say what you will about the tories but they are at least competent, taken seriously and not focusing on fighting each other tooth and nail.

24HourTrainer The Tories were happy to increase University fees from £3000 to £9000 creating disparity in families where one child has less fees to repay than the other sibling - that's clearly unfair.

Thatcher happily embraced Reaganist monetary policies which saw deregulation of the banks, which led to a catastrophic rise in interest rates.

YANBU

I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum financially.

My job is at risk due to school budget cuts

I think enough people have been brainwashed by our right wing media. I dread 9 June.