To wonder what would happen if Corbyn et al did win the GE next month?

[MsGameandWatch]

As asked by my 14 year old son and his friends today?

Would be an utter disaster, country in turmoil and ruins according to my ex H. What worse than now?

They'll reverse everything, sort this country right out according to majority of my FB friends.

Personally I want anything that'd different from the present status quo but don't think for one second thing labour will get a majority.

We know what the Tories are doing but what would Labour actually do? Would they, could they reverse Brexit? Would they could they pour substantial funds into the NHS? Are they even able to form an efficient government?

I don't have plenty of time believeitornot but I also give plenty of money to charity, of broadcasting it is now the done thing.

I assume you are in a part of the south east where houses are affordable, or you have one already then.

I am disappointed to learn that voluntary supertax payers can't just give more. It would be so helpful to the rest of us who think we're paying enough already.

We have been following what Corbyn has done while leading the opposition

That is why so many are not voting for Labour while he is leading the party

Bad results again from yesterday as expected just wonder who or what can be blamed this time moon cycle, good tv, the news about Prince Phillip

Higher taxes for the rich, more money for NHS and schools and a softer brexit.

I assume you are in a part of the south east where houses are affordable, or you have one already then

No. I first bought in London near the peak of house prices, using a 100% mortgage....

I appreciate that actually I earn a lot of money and an incremental increase in tax will not render me poverty stricken. If we don't invest to save with small tax increases, we will pay for it by other means e.g. With increased inflation etc etc.

I agree with the principle that £1 to someone on the breadline is worth more than it would be to me. So I can afford a tax increase and indeed would support one as a contribution to a better society.

Instead we have Theresa May looking to fund pet projects with no evidence it will work (grammar schools), the threat of war in Syria (which will displace even more people and cost us a fortune) and Brexit (the impact of which we haven't yet felt because it hasn't yet happened).

Trickle down economics just doesn't work. We've had this principle since thatcher. And, forgive me, during all the years of Tory and labour power, we have not seen a corresponding increase in the wealth of those at the bottom.

Instead, under both Labour and the Tories we've seen more and more wealth go to the rich. The gap between rich and power continues to rise. Governments make excuses, but fundamentally, our "trickle down" "let the rich get richer" economy has failed.

Something needs to change.

Unfortunately Theresa May will not deliver the change and neither with Corbyn. So I'd rather that we had a situation where the Tories were not given absolute power, that we had a strong opposition in order to hold their feet to the fire.

Theresa May isn't stupid. She knows that the next five years are going to be bad. Education cuts, NHS cuts, social care cuts and Brexit will see the uk facing a terrible time. She wants as much "power" to reduce any criticism of her government.

It's not about delivering a mandate for Brexit. It's about reducing criticism.

Have to be at the wealthy Labour voters who say they have left the country because they are tripping over homeless people. Yip that is the great socialist attitude and the reason why JC wont be able to tax the rich... they will all leave the country.

Its just like DA sending her children private, all socialists are equal, but some socialists are more equal than others.

JC has opposed a lot of policies, will spend other peoples money and of course tax everyone until the pips squeak. Voters are not that stupid, are they ? How will he actually generate wealth?

Just for a moment ask yourself where all the interest payments we make on our debt goes? It goes to the wealthy elite who bought the debt. So the more JC borrows the more money will be taken off your children and given to the wealthy. Is that what Labour supporters really want , massive wealth redistribution towards the wealthy locked in for generations to come!

I always thing it strange when people assume a slight raise in taxes for the high earners will make ordinary people who earn 50k or something leave the country. It will be a couple of hundreds of pounds a year to them and leaving the country is a massive decision. Yes some very wealthy ones might do clever things with their money with off shore accounts etc. But we are not going to see a mass exodus of people earning over 40k and it will increase income for the government.

Country would go bankrupt, don't know how he would fund all of his promises. Wasn't it Labour who couldn't work out if the extra policing promises would cost £300,000 or £30 million?
They said they'd raise taxes for the rich but I don't see how that alone would fund the NHS, schools, welfare and public services promises made.

I really cannot decide who to vote for! They are all as bad as each other imo

How will he actually generate wealth?

How will the Tories? The Tories enable the rich to get richer. But that wealth doesn't actually go anywhere.... as we've seen since the days of Thatcher. For decades we've had policies which have enabled the rich to get very rich. Richer than ever. Is the world a wealthier place? It is for the few. But not for most people!

I think we need a new political aspiration. The Tory model is broken. The Labour model is broken. As for the lib dems, I have no clue.

We should be encouraging investment in our people (through education and health) and in our assets (linked to our people plus develop investment in technology. We should have continued to invest in green technology, become experts and sold it globally). This will generate wealth.

Instead we are stuck on the treadmill of trying to make the rich richer without being clear how, and ruining the chances of the younger generation. Where is the hope for our children? They will be the ones dealing with the aftermath.

I can't imagine it would be that bad. Although the Libdems have said they would not go into coalition with Labour, I suspect they might, to halt or change the flavour of Brexit. And I doubt either party wants the Scots to vote for independence, so including the SNP in a coalition could be sensible. And being a cynic, I suspect if Nicola Sturgeon had a role in a UK government (or her party did as she is not an MP), she might be less keen on independence.

Brexit can be halted, it's been made clear that Art 50 is revocable even though it does not say that it is. I think if we had a change of government and they said "we're not doing it", the EU 27 would be quite relieved, actually.

However, I think even the Libdems have said they'd have a second referendum, they would not use a victory as a mandate to stop it. So I think the upshot would be that we'd leave but pay a lot in to be in a similar position to Norway etc.

But it won't happen. The Tories will get in again and all we can hope is that a larger majority includes more moderate MPs who will influence May et al to stop being so aggressive towards the EU.

And in return, can someone tell Juncker to shut up.

Judge on what they do not what they say. I have little to no faith in manifestos. Labour set up the NHS and has supported it when in government.
^^This.
The Tories are dismantling public services by starving them of funds- health, education, prisons, libraries, parks, you name it. That is their philosophy to do that- it is their natural state.

I'm (only just) a higher rate tax payer in the South East, and will vote Labour because we totally depend on state funded education and NHS care etc.

Of course I am not going to leave the country if I have to pay a few hundred more in tax a year under a labour govt.

I'll just be fucking relieved if hat happens, that the Tories were not in power to cock things up further and that will stop me feeling so terrified about the future for my DC under these deluded arrogant hard Brexiteers.

"Have to be confused at the wealthy Labour voters who say they have left the country because they are tripping over homeless people. Yip that is the great socialist attitude and the reason why JC wont be able to tax the rich... they will all leave the country."

I think what cocklodger was trying to say is that it's unbearable to be living in a wealthy country and watch the wealthy become more wealthy and ordinary people struggling to meet their basic needs, because of the ideologically driven 'austerity' imposed by this and the previous government.

Labour set up the NHS and has supported it when in government.

You're half right. Do you know what PFI means and how it's fucked the NHS?

I'm sick of the way this country is not recognising just how disenfranchised large parts of the population are. A vote for Corbyn will go a long way to dilute the hard right element in the Conservative party. People keep saying that he wants a utopia. No, just decent public services. We are all paying for this but the cuts are getting worse and worse. We are living in food bank Britain. Apparently it's reasonable to suggest to people if you can't feed your family go to a food bank. When did this suddenly become acceptable and ok? I don't think it is. It's not n expensive utopia to expect children to be fed and have a decent education. If Corbyn is going to do something to address those inequalities he will always get my vote. People need to listen to what he's actually saying instead of half taking it in.

And furthermore, the Conservatives will raise your taxes anyway with no benefit to public services.

Unfortunately labour has yet again torn itself apart with a lurch to the left which has always been unpalatable to the general public so here we go again back to the wilderness. Just like the post Foot years.

Obviously labour will have a disastrous election and hopefully kick out Corbyn and appoint a sensible electable leader who can start to hold the Tories to account.

I can't forgive Corbyn for his inability to form a strong opposition but with the ridiculous Abbott and vile Thornbury it's no surprise.

The lurch to the left has been a direct reaction to the same happening in the right. I don't think that anything that Corbyn is saying is that unreasonable. We are in danger of losing our innate Britishness which comes with good public services. People now see them as a commodity that can be bought and sold, not an investment in the next generation to make the future better.

You're half right. Do you know what PFI means and how it's fucked the NHS?

Who introduced PFI 🤔

I believe it was John Majors government who introduced PFI but there use continued under Tony Blair.

Er, yes I have heard of it. John Major introduced PFI in the early 1990s.
At some points the NAO found PFI helpful for some projects.
Yes it's a problem now in some schemes but that isn't a stick to beat the Labour Party with if you're not going to apply the same criticism to the Tories. I'm not a PFI supporter and you may remember at the time a lot of left wingers and others were not. PFI was massively controversial.

However we are facing a GE in a matter of weeks and frankly PFI mistakes are a drop in the ocean now when you think about the monumental costs of a hard Brexit.

@LlamaCharmer

PFI has fucked the NHS so I'm not sure how it can be a drop in the ocean when it's one of the things that the 'anyone but Tory' brigade whinge about most.

christina has it. I can't watch it anymore. If I can't change it nor control it there is absolutely no point in seeing misery daily.

To just say "but the it was the tories who introduced it" is partisan point scoring, there are a lot of voters around now who lived under the last labour government.

It's the same with how in some peoples minds the housing crisis only started the minute the Tories got into government and it is still Thatchers fault for selling of the social housing.

Saying that it will be different this time doesn't really wash, its not media manipulation or whetever bogeyman you care to think of for people not thinking the correct way, sometimes you need to own up to your mistakes

www.newstatesman.com/staggers/2014/07/save-nhs-labour-must-face-ugly-truth-pfi

When you get spectacular own goals like the car crash interview from DA earlier this week, it doesnt really exude confidence in it being a false narrative that they are not good for the economy, especially when it was pointed out that every feel good policy that they have released have come from the same source of funding, and when questioned on it DA herself said that "well we haven't promised anything to any one area"...

I make the point that the Tories introduced PFI for the very reason that people try and pass the buck to labour without acknowledging that the Tories brought it in.

PFI was necessary because after nearly 20 years of under funding, something needed doing to address the problem.

To pretend otherwise is to only look at one side of the coin.

The Tories ran infrastructure into the ground.

They're doing the same again. For example; schools will need billions to bring their buildings back to standard. The Tories know this. But aren't putting enough in and schools crumble....

Yet they have spent billions on building brand new schools which, in so many cases, are not needed.

Why build a brand new free school in an affluent area which doesn't need places when other existing schools fall apart?

It's terrible management of the economy.

People react differently to higher taxes. Some choose not to bother working more if they're not able to keep more than a certain amount of it. Others are motivated to work even harder because they want to have a lot of take home pay to buy things they want, and will do whatever they need to get it. Still others won't modify their behaviour at all, for ethical reasons or just because they don't care that much. And while lots of high earners could and would go abroad, plenty can't or won't.

Daft to generalise. We're not all the same.

I can't even bear to think about it. I can only hope that either he would step down and realise that he's not up to the job or there would be a serious leadership challenge and someone competent would win.