To think Diane Abbott was off her face on the radio this morning?

[Ginlinessisnexttogodliness]

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/diane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost/

Fragrant Diane, she really is the kiss of death.
My toes are still curling

why should I be loyal to a bunch of Stalinist dinosaurs that I didn't vote to lead my party? Corbyn is letting down all the people that really need a labour government due to his mismanagement. Loyalty has to be deserved.

make - do you honestly, hand on heart, think the current labour party is fit to lead the country?

I didn't want us to Leave the EU. I voted Remain.
The majority of those who voted voted Leave. I have to suck it up.
I won't vote Labour. I won't vote Tory.
You want to blame me for 5 years of a Tory government. Make sure you also blame those that voted Leave. Brexit will dictate how our economy goes for the foreseeable future.
Where was JC's voice during the referendum campaign? he was on fucking holiday. Where was DA during the parliamentary vote? conveniently poorly. I would have turned up to vote with shit in my pants and vomit down my front to vote in that one.
Don't call me a saboteur for not voting Labour.

Make I totally respect your position but if you really think Corbyn snd that front bench are fit to run the country at one of the most crucial times since WW2 you are in denial.

I don't see Corbyn as labour as he has consistently voted against every labour policy until he was voted in by marxists and now he wants loyalty!!

Fuck that.

I don't like Corbyn's machine because I tangled very badly with it when I worked for the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, actually. Yes, I worked for and still support CND. I've been there done that with his coterie. None of my former colleagues have any time for him either. So don't tell me I'm some sort of red Tory, please.

Bejazzled - I've met a few of them in my time! Often start with, "I've got a degree." Or, "I'm a woman." Yep. Totally unlike anybody else then. In the words of Shania Twain, "That don't impress me much..."

Being optimistic I'd see it as a choice between:

a) a constellation of disasters that would create a climate in which Labour as it currently stands would win a General Election (and what would then follow); and

b) Labour, reconfigured in a way to appeal to the electorate, winning in 5 years time.

b) wins every time for me.

Even in the radio 4 interview she repeatedly said Policemen instead of police officers.

"policemen" - only a dinosaur calls police officers "policemen". Imagine if a Tory said it!

Yes B for me too.

Personally I think the whole party system is bollocks. You end up voting for whomever is closest to your ideals. Which is usually not that close.

Imagine if instead we could vote per policy. We could vote for what we wanted - a headmaster or two to lead education; listen to doctors as well as management experts on the NHS; an army general on defence - it might actually make sense that way. Shame it's unworkable in practice!

make - do you honestly, hand on heart, think the current labour party is fit to lead the country

More than the current government? Absolutely! They are intentionally and systematically enacting a fearsome ideology.

Agree on b), nauticant. It's the best we can hope for.

A fearsome ideology? God help us. Just what we need - fucking ideologues.
How did you vote in the referendum, make?

make for the eleventy billionth time of asking, do you honestly think labour is in with a prayer for this election? Honestly?

We're not gifting anyone anything. That would suggest the outcome is in some doubt.

We are recording our despair and fury at this. Don't ask me for bloody loyalty to a vain, deluded fool who (a) had never shown any to his party but asks for it and (b) is guaranteeing years of tory governments and unspeakable collateral damage to vulnerable people by his incompetence and refusal to compromise.

tea absolutley spot on.

That is not my definition of loyalty....not at all.

What so you are supposed to vote for this lot - who announce policies i the run up to an election but can't even get basic figures correct - out of 'party loyalty?'
Is that the best the Labour Party have to offer? Dream big guys.

Sorry make. You must be on a different planet. This JC and his disciples haven't a clue what they are doing or how they'd pay for it.

It would be a fiasco and a disaster on a monumental scale and then we'd get another Tory government making twice as many cuts to deal with the mess.

How did you vote in the referendum, make?

Remain. There is no plan for leave. It's chaos.

I am very disappointed in Corbyn for not strongly opposing.

But I hold the line.

And who pays for the line? Do you really believe DA that reversing cuts to CGT will cover everything?

How can you even predict accurately what CGT will raise in a post Brexit world?

What line? There is no line. I'm RC - what you are saying sounds like religious ideology that doesn't allow people to think for themselves because you have to hold the line. Doublethink.

There's is no line. This is not North Korea and Labour Party members can think for themselves.

If you wish to back a gutless incompetent nasty and bullying dictatorship that's trying to take over and split our party that's up to you. If you vote for them and realise that this lot will never ever be seen as electable by the British people that's up to you snd it's you and your ilk who will keep Britain Tory for much much longer.

I think we can do better.

Make, thank you for telling me how you voted in the referendum. How did you vote under Blair or Brown? Did you "hold the line" then?

Criticism, even sharp and severe criticism, is not necessarily hatred

You're right, it's not. Unfortunately though, there are posters such as the Deletion Queen who simply can't countenance any criticism - no matter how constructive - of someone who happens to be black, and will drag their race into even the most rational discussion

You'd hope that in the 21st century we'd have moved beyond that and could discuss issues without some imagined agenda being endlessly raised, but apparently not