To think breastfeeding has made no difference to my dd and is massively overrated in terms of benefits?

[Placeanditspatrons]

I've nearly driven myself to a breakdown feeding my dd. She is 16 months now and I'm still feeding. She has been ill more times and worse than my formula fed from four months son. She does not recover any faster and she catches anything I get and gets it worse, despite supppsedly the antibodies passing to her and either preventing or reducing the severity of the illness.

I know it's anecdotal and the studies say overall bf babies are healthier but how much healthier? I mean I we talking one less cold? One less ear injection? Statistically? Many of my friends have said similar. Again anecdotal but I can't help wondering - after the colostrum which is more important I guess - does it really make any noticeable difference?

*I know mothers to be who decided ore birth they were not even going to try to bf.
I also know mums who were adamant their child would never be tainted by ff.

Both kids got fed.
End of.*

This

I can't understand why anybody gets their knickers in a twist over other parents feeding choices. I couldn't give a shiney shite whether someone breast feeds or formula feeds or both. I am only bothered about the way I do things.

Leave it to the HCP's to advise and promote feeding choices and concentrate on your own kids. Bugger all to do with any body else other than the mother.

"Bertrand perhaps rates of CS and/or birth complications (e.g. tube feeding)? Family support? Paternal leave? Expectation management?"

Those are all reasons for not wanting to bf. Not of not actually being able to.

Why the obsession with it?

I definitely disagree with BF being a cause of PND. I think after you have failed to treat women like real human beings during pregnancy and childbirth, exposed them to serous uncontrolled pain for the first time in their lives, often denied them adequate or any pain relief, dumped them on a crowded ward, and demanded they look after a newborn while they are still in the post anaesthetic haze - it would be a bit rich to blame the BF for PND (even including the lack of support for it).

I think torturing women during childbirth is a more likely the cause of PND than women feeding their babies.

No, at least the tube feeding means you sometimes can't. I couldn't. I bloody tried, consistently and repeatedly, with MW support, in the SCBU and at home. I nearly drove myself to PND about it all. But because DS had been tube-fed, he didn't know what to do and was too used to easy food. I could want to BF all I liked, it made no difference.

My friend with a 4mo also tried her damnedest, but inverted nipples don't make for easy BFing, so she (bloody heroine that she is) is exclusively expressing using a hospital grade machine.

So there's two reasons for can't for you, just in my immediate circles.

It's also a damned sight easier to BF if you have the support, not only from HCPs but also your family and immediate environment/circle/lifestyle, and if you know what to expect and how to deal with it. Where would you draw the line between can't and don't want to with a new mum who has to contend with little to no support from the dad and her family or friends, other kids to deal with, a household to manage, bleeding nipples and pain, poor latches, undiagnosed tongue ties, clusterfeeds, exhaustion, work to go back to etc. etc.

BF is not easy for everyone and I find it extremely damaging to some mums' mental health to say that it is and should be.

It's also a damned sight easier to BF if you have the support, not only from HCPs but also your family and immediate environment/circle/lifestyle, and if you know what to expect and how to deal with it.

This I agree with. It was much easier for me as my mother had breastfed all of us til we were toddlers, so I grew up watching it.

You have a very odd definition of "obsession".

Another country seems to have overcome something that is making a lot of women in this country unhappy- wouldn"t it be a good idea if we found out what it was and did the same?

Disclaimer: I don't mean women who have made a happy, free choice to ff.

I've no idea why people get upset about formula versus breastfeeding. I breast fed my son until he was 15 months old. I just couldn't get him to stop. His two older siblings were breast fed mixed, breast fed until a month, then formula and I've never noticed a difference in their health (though ds is autistic which is has nothing to do with ailments). Ds has never had the chicken pox though. Obviously he got all his immunisations.

DD2 who was breast fed for a month had to go onto formula because of thrush, as did I on my boobs, and she was also snuffly as well - she does suffer from hayfever. It was such a hot summer, and she was June born. Her immunisation programme was delayed because she was always snuffly - I was shouted at by the consultant because of the delays and told I was a bad mother. She got there in the end! Ironically her shots in primary were delayed a year because of shortages and us parents were assured it wouldn't impact on their health!

Really don't sweat it. But if you want to stop make up your mind and do it. You are the adult and the parent and it's your body. Take control. And, good luck!

I gave up breastfeeding I have to take medications it was annoying having to switch drugs and change dosages to keep up bfing as well as my inverted nipples in the end doctor recommended I ff so I can take my normal medication and I quit really grateful formula exists.

Personally...I couldnt bf my ds1 as the only thing that came out of my nipples was blood.
I had retained placenta which - unbeknown to be - prevented my milk coming in.
I seem to remember some watery discharge about day 12 but by then ds1 was on hospital on an ng tube.
Are some people really SO surprised that some women can't bf?
Perhaps we just "don't try hard enough"?
Ffs.
I think the posts below indicate exactly why bf rates in Scandinavia are so high.
I also think lots of scandinavians mix feed?

TBH I agree with OP there's so much pressure applied to women to breastfeed, yet 9 out of ten of the other DC the same as mine who were breastfed have had more illnesses than mine. And the majority have been hospitalised on atleast 2 occasions. 7 out of 10 have long term illnesses and or allergies. I have nothing against women wanting to breastfeed by choice I do however have a huge problem with the way healthcare professionals and the breastfeeding brigade degrade and belittle women that choose not to. My DC haven't suffered atall from not being breastfed and are thriving in comparison to their peers.

"Are some people really SO surprised that some women can't bf?
Perhaps we just "don't try hard enough"?
Ffs."

That's why we can't talk about it. Because instread of a conversation, people say things like that.

No,NI am not surprised that some women can't. I am also not surprised hat some women don't want to.

I am surprised that the number of women who can't varies from country to country. Aren't you? Don't you want to know why? So that all women can have a real choice about how they feed their babies?

you've got to feel sorry for the small percentage that 'fail'

You can't win in this so failure isn't an option. Breast feed for too long, you're weird, do it for a little time, tut, tut and given up easily. Mixed fed? We know who wears the trousers in that household! Did it just right? Did you go to the doctor/health visitor to get a medal?

Not really. Not surprised at all. The standard of maternity care in this country is woeful.
I think Scandinavian women get much better ante and post natal care than we do.
Ditto help if bf is hard/difficult.
For example...
If I had had more than one 12 week scan it would have meant my sons IUgR would have been picked up and he could have been delivered via cs early. We consider ourselves very lucky he was not stillborn (very high stillbirth rates with undiagnised iugr).
He was 3 weeks "early" born at 37 weeks but in reality had stopped growing inside me at about 32 weeks.
Instead of being treated as a 32 prem I was sent to the normal post natal ward with nurses who should never have been let anywhere near vulnerable women and babies. I was then sent home with a 4.5 lb, badly jaundiced non feeding baby.
My breast tissue was bruised from the nurses trying to hand express....they only got blood.
The midwife yanked my placenta from Me and it was mentioned at the time it was "ragged" and not healthy.
Sadly no one told the post Natal ward so I was sent him with retained placenta.
My sons ante and post natal care were horrific. I'm very lucky he survived such medical neglect.
I'm fairly sure that doesn't happen in Scandinavia....or at least not to the degree that it happens here 😞😡

"Fail" to bf.
What lovely terminology.
I didn't "fail" to bf ds1. I couldnt
I didn't "fail" to bf Ds2. I chose not to.
Why is that so fucking hard for some to understand?

Spot on Elendon!

Sorry...that should have read 20 week scan
My 12 week scan was classed as the one I had at 7 weeks due to threatened miscarriage.
Even though ds measure small on the 20 week scan it was never followed up.
I had Ds2 at a different hospital and refused point blank to stay on the post natal ward and I was home 10 hours after having him.
I don't think people realise just how badly some mothers are treated. It is no surprise AT ALL to me that the uk has such low bf rates. The help is just not there. The care is just not there. Some HCPs seem to have no idea what they are talking about re bf and ff. Employers do not make necessary changes to allow women to express at work....need I go on?

So sorry you had a tough time, Badders. Me too , I'm afraid- different issues, same dreadful care.
I wish I could go back and tell myself I'm not a failure. It's taken a long time to undo that damage and I'm not sure I'm there yet.

So do people think that breast feeding shouldn't be promoted at all?

Bert I think it should be promoted but I think it should be a lot less "breast is best, off you go" and a lot more "breast is normal, here are some challenges you may encounter and here are some places you can go for support".

BF doesn't have huge benefits.

It definitely reduces the risk of ear infections & digestive issues. The reduction is small but significant, i.e. we can be very sure that BF helps to prevent infections, but the effect is small overall.

It also definitely cuts the risk of you getting breast cancer.

But, BF babies are also more likely to be readmitted to hospital for dehydration/low blood sugar.

And the other benefits are much more questionable. One of the major studies done by the WHO found some very small benefits to blood pressure (reductions of 1 mmhg...), and very very small benefits in other areas.

However the WHO studies and other studies acknowledge that BF research is very difficult because in western countries women who BF are (mostly) the most educated & wealthy.

At a population level developed countries with lower BF rates than us have better outcomes (France) and countries with higher BF rates have worse outcomes (USA).

So ultimately I think a lot of women feel let down by being encouraged to BF so strongly. Women are given the impression that BF is of huge importance, if they don't BF their child will get asthma etc. etc. That's why I think our BF rate is so low. We've made it so high stakes that a lot of people don't think there's a reason to mix feed or top up - just a drop of formula is seen as having "failed".

The % of women who will have difficulties BFing is more like 15%...

So do people think that breast feeding shouldn't be promoted at all?

Of course it should be promoted, but not in a sneery 'breast is best' kind of way.

Women should be given the facts, and allowed to make their choice with no judgement, no pushing.

It should also be for HCP to promote properly during antenatal care and not general busy bodies sticking their noses into the why's/why nots/couldn't/didn't want to... Because it's nobody else's fucking business!!!

It is an obsession in the UK.

People are obsessed with those who don't want to breast feed, and why.

People are obsessed with what people might think if they choose not to breast feed.

People are obsessed with people who breast feed older children.

People are obsessed with forcing themselves to breastfeed when their heart isn't really in it, because of fear of what people might think.

People are obsessed with continuing to breast feed when they are having major difficulties because they feel guilty.

FFS people have ended up with severely underweight babies and they won't give formula because some idiotic people carry on like it's poison.

In other countries it's just a feeding choice and nobody gives a shit either way. In the UK it is an obsession. And its mainly because people are so bothered what everyone else thinks, and those who have very strong opinions often make none breast feeders feel guilty.