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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to ask my fellow mumsnetters to stop saying 'I would have left'. **trigger warning - domestic violence. Warning added by MNHQ**

389 replies

myoriginal3 · 29/04/2017 21:43

or 'Id have left after the first slap'.

Domestic violence is insipid. You don't fucking know what you would do until it happens to you.

Every time I read it and I consider myself quite strong, I feel like I'm a weaker female.

You WOULDN'T fucking leave at the first slap. Statistics state that you wouldn't. So stop talking about something that you can't imagine.

OP posts:
TheDowagerCuntess · 30/04/2017 00:40

Foldedtshirt posted the shark cage theory at 9:58 (time may or may not be helpful, as I'm in a different time zone).

Sharks can be wily fuckers though, and can occasionally get through even titanium cages, unfortunately.

I agree that saying 'I would leave after the first punch' is rarely actually helpful - especially if you've never even been in an abusive relationship.

Original poster
myoriginal3 · 30/04/2017 00:43

It was less than a year in for the first beating. It was literally out of the blue to me. I made a complaint with the police, was photographed everything. He had meanwhile signed himself into a psychiatric hospital (I kid you not). I felt sorry for him! It was so absolutely out of character and he had drank whiskey so it must have been the whiskey. So yeah I took him back.

OP posts:
user1493453415 · 30/04/2017 00:46

myoriginal Why are you so dismissive to other's experiences of DV?

user1493453415 · 30/04/2017 00:48

One point on the shark cage - if someone is already vulnerable for other reasons it's likely that professionals are already building their shark cage, being their alarm system. If that's couple with a particularly violent first physical incident it's more likely the person will leave first time around.

Ronnyhotdog · 30/04/2017 00:56

I think a lot of people think that way if they haven't had the experience of it. It's very hard to understand unless you've lived or witnessed it. I was guilty of thinking that way ( although would never be so vocal about it) until a close family member was involved in a very abusive relationship and it totally changed my view, it's not always possible to leave, especially when there's been months spent chipping away at your confidence and self worth. By the time the first slap comes it's possible that people believe it's what they deserve and there's no way out.

Lweji · 30/04/2017 01:06

If I got a slap after a 20 year relationship I'd have him at the GP to check for dementia or a brain tumour. People are the way they are. It doesn't take 20 years for them to 'let it out'.

You should read your own OP.
Or do you not agree with yourself that people shouldn't presume to say what they would have done?

Elphame · 30/04/2017 01:11

I left a boyfriend the first time he hit me. He was never given the chance to do it again. We'd been together around 2 years.

We weren't living together though and (fortunately) had no children together. I appreciate it isn't as easy though if you do have those ties

Lynnm63 · 30/04/2017 01:16

Surely if you post on MN asking for advice knowing that a lot of people are saying LTB wouldn't that make you think maybe they're right, this isn't normal? Wouldn't it make you reevaluate your version if normal rather than thinking MN people are deluded they don't understand?
I'm not trying to minimise the ops feelings. I'm just asking as I assumed LTB would help. Except when it's he's left the loo seat up again how do I deal with it. LTB.

BoomBoomsCousin · 30/04/2017 01:18

Statistically women do leave after the first hit. Some leave before the first hit - when the insults start, or the attempts to isolate. Some leave after the second, having promised themselves that once could be an anomaly, but realised the truth the next time. Some the third, etc. But most do leave it much longer. Statistically there is a range and women leave at almost every point - from the first hit, until they can't. The average used to be 34 times before first contacting the police. If it's gone down to 20 before leaving that's great news. I hope it goes down further and I think people saying they wouldn't stay helps bring that number down some. Because it helps recalibrate people's norms.

I see why it might feel like a criticism to hear people say "I would have left the first time" and sometimes it's clear that those comments are judging and that attitude is vile, but often I don't think that's what's happening. I think people are trying to point out that leaving at the first hit would be best and there is an important message in it for the many people reading the thread other than the OP - that leaving after the first time is totally OK, that it's what women should do. That they aren't being mean or stupid or unforgiving for not putting up with it for longer. That they didn't "ask for it" or "owe him a chance", that their safety is of primary importance and it's OK to think your safety is more important than your partner's problems.

I don't think it's that helpful saying if the first hit was after 20 years it must something medical. It's still OK to leave. He can go to the Dr.'s and see if it's something medical and get it fixed without you being around to be on the receiving end again.

When I was a teen I dumped a boyfriend after the first hit. I had always been told - Never put up with it, there is no excuse and it can't lead anywhere good. So when it happened I dumped him immediately, it didn't even occur to me not to. It wasn't strength it took, it was a set of norms that hadn't been compromised. I would always encourage anyone else to do the same. I've never been hit by a domestic partner since. Other boyfriends I have left because they've been jerks about things like who I can go out with, or they've been critical of me in a nasty way. I have zero tolerance for that sort of behaviour. Again, I don't think this is because I'm strong. I think it's because my norms mean that I don't accept a lot of the lead up behaviour, so it's harder for it to get to the stage where I would end up trapped and unsure how to get out. I don't mean that I could never find myself in that situation. I mean that the harder these norms are pushed, the fewer women will end up in that situation and when they are, they won't stay for as long. It doesn't make it their fault if they stay (it's always the abuser, and I wish we would talk more about the norms we teach boys and men), but it's still good for women to have the idea that they shouldn't and really don't have to put up with it at all and that many won't and don't.

TheDowagerCuntess · 30/04/2017 01:37

but I feel like I'm making a fuss about nothing as the last one was just a bruise on my wrist.

I also think this ^^ is really telling, as you've minimised (obviously, in order to be able to deal with it) what's happening to you so much ... to the extent that you think reacting to a bruise on your wrist would be 'making a fuss about nothing'. Whereas for me, that would be the worst thing a man had ever done to me in my 40+ years on the planet.

I can see that if someone told you to LTB over that, you'd think it was a total over-reaction. Whereas for many women, it would be a total deal-breaker, because it had never even happened to them and, what's more, they couldn't ever imagine it happening to them.

The chasm between people's 'normals' is vast, and there's nothing like coming onto a forum like MN to open your eyes open you eyes to it.

That's a good thing, in both directions.

mathanxiety · 30/04/2017 02:50

Goldmandra - a truly great post.

The bottom line is that the aim of all abusers is to make the victim believe she has no options. That includes the option to leave.

Unfortunately, as long as we as a society are inclined to let men off the hook for outrageously bad behaviour towards women, and always give a man the benefit of the doubt, all decisions by women relating to abusive relationships are going to be subject to scrutiny and judgement. We are going to be damned if we do and damned if we don't leave.

So overall, while it is important to encourage women to understand that men do not have the right to abuse their partners, I feel it really is yet another reminder to DV victims that they are pathetic and useless to tell them that someone else wouldn't put up with what they are 'putting up with'.

When you reduce the heroic effort it often takes to get through each succeeding 24 hours, and all the putting out of hundreds of fires and second guessing of your thoughts, all the biting of your tongue, all the effort to keep children from being hurt to a passive 'putting up with it' you really are not saying something helpful to another woman.

It's a far better idea to focus on what is wrong with the attitudes of men if what we want to convey is the message that abuse is unacceptable.

Trifleorbust · 30/04/2017 06:48

I hate threads like this, where the OP is all ready and geared up for a fight. What on earth is the point?

LedaP · 30/04/2017 07:06

I left my dp, walked away with dd from our shared home. He grabbed me by the neck against a wall. First time.

It wasnt fucking easy. It was damn hard. I would advise people to leave. But i wouldnt tell people they should have left years ago, too late for that.

It doesnt mean i am stronger. But i hate people who are dismissive of others experiences. Tbh op you sound as dismissive about other experiences, as you complain about in your OP

Original poster
myoriginal3 · 30/04/2017 07:27

Where have I been dismissive of others' experiences?

OP posts:
Original poster
myoriginal3 · 30/04/2017 07:28

I never stated that people shouldn't be ADVISED to leave. What pisses me off is people stating that THEY WOULD HAVE LEFT ALREADY.

OP posts:
Trifleorbust · 30/04/2017 07:32

OP, I hear you. It pisses you off. But why? If they would have or believe they would have, they are just sharing the opinion that what the woman is going through is more than they would tolerate. Not sure why it offends you. But you seem to have posted today determined to be offended.

LedaP · 30/04/2017 07:34

People are the way they are. It doesn't take 20 years for them to 'let it out'.

That is dismissive. Basically saying 'if it happens after 20 years there must be a medical reason' and also 'people dont change'....yes they do.

I have know loads of people who are nice. Who turn into dicks as they get older. And vice versa.

I have known my mums best friends dd since i was born. She was awful until she was 19. Her mum died and it changed her. She is lovely and has been for thr last 15 years. I have known bereavement do the opposite.

You tell people they absolutely wouldnt leave at the first incident. And yet they do.

My point is that while you are complaining about people saying 'i would have left when it first happened' isnt helpful. Neither is writing off other peoples experiences because it happened differently to yours.

Soyamilkisniceintea · 30/04/2017 07:34

Trifle there are plenty of threads where you can find a row

Trifleorbust · 30/04/2017 07:37

Soyamilkisniceintea:

I don't get you.

Soyamilkisniceintea · 30/04/2017 07:38

Stop trying to goad the OP, trifle Hmm

HomityBabbityPie · 30/04/2017 07:40

Having worked in DV for many years this is one of the very worse things you can say to a DV victim.

Realising someone is abusive is only half the battle. Abuse is exceptionally psychologically complex.

People are just ignorant when they say such things.

Trifleorbust · 30/04/2017 07:41

Soyamilkisniceintea:

Oh bugger off. 8 pages of comments where the OP tells every other woman what her experience is or should sound like, and I am goading her? Don't make me laugh, it's too early.

HomityBabbityPie · 30/04/2017 07:41

It also says something massive about our tolerance of misogyny when the first question we ask is why doesn't she leave him, not why does he do that.

MsGameandWatch · 30/04/2017 07:45

I didn't leave after the first slap. He was a big fan of shoving past me impatiently to do things I was clearly fucking up Hmm, he liked to barge into me and of course who could blame him when I was being so useless? That progressed to actually properly shoving me around, into walls and kitchen counters etc, then it was grabbing me round the throat. I left when he did it in front of my child and had me pinned down my throat on the sofa. My five year old tried to protect me and that was the final straw, no way I could I let that happen. I'm glad that some people do leave after one slap but I don't think most do.

Paninotogo · 30/04/2017 07:54

Do you have children OP? I was your child. I would not put my child through that shit. I would totally leave at the first slap/insult. I am sorry to say this but I do think that if you don't leave, you are weak. I think people should totally say that they would not tolerate this, I am heartened when I hear that some children are being protected. If you do not protect yours, do not come here and say how people don't understand, do something, change their future. Sorry if this is hard to hear, get me deleted, I just don't care. This makes me so angry.