Transgender students may not have to reveal birth sex to play sports

[Bambambini]

"Transgender students should not have to declare their birth gender when applying to university sports clubs, the National Union of Students (NUS) is expected to rule.

It adds that trans and intersex students should not be asked to disclose their legal gender or personal medical information to participate in university sport, including details regarding hormone replacement therapy.

The motion suggests that the NUS follows the lead of Durham University’s new policy on inclusivity, whereby trans and intersex students are allowed to compete and train in whichever team “best fits their gender identity”."

Whole Telegraph article here www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/04/24/transgender-students-should-not-have-declare-birth-gender-applying/

Untwist your knickers

What a revolting crass phrase, dinosaursandtea.

dinosaurs - 'live and let live' applies to people going about their lives peacefully.

Not to groups of people expressly disadvantaging and silencing other groups of people.

No - women won't ever roll over on this.

That's not going happen.

These threads will keep appearing. Women are quite good and quietly and slowly making their voices heard, and working towards getting what they want. We've had a lot of practice.

Oh my GOD. Untwist your knickers, live and let live and at least try to be open minded. I don't know why MNHQ haven't cracked down on this transphobic behaviour.

Yawn.

Totally unfair to female athletes.

This will spread across the NUS as they are trapped in the headlights of all the identifarian issues, especially the trans cult. So if Durham demands it today, NUS HQ will be pushing for it nationally tomorrow. This is now urgent. The TUC will follow suit, and the Labour Party which has also signed up to the new unreality.

The current state of the law is from the 2010 Equality Act, which outlaws discrimination against transgender people. But they must have taken steps towards reassignment, viz:

Gender reassignment

(1)A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex.

(2)A reference to a transsexual person is a reference to a person who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

(3)In relation to the protected characteristic of gender reassignment—

(a)a reference to a person who has a particular protected characteristic is a reference to a transsexual person;

(b)a reference to persons who share a protected characteristic is a reference to transsexual persons.

What's now being lobbied for - very hard indeed, by transactivists, their companion men's rights activists, and their handmaidens, is for self declaration to be enough. That will be the end of any rights for women. Hopefully the latest attempt will get lost till well after the election, but be ready to do some major campaigning later, as this is going to be very difficult to stop. They are organised, and funded.

I think the same, Betsy, although a little more on the 'well done' side. As biological men do have such an innate physical advantage, it's a different issue to have a trans man compete against men than it is to have a trans woman compete against women. I read about a young trans boxer (can't remember his name) who beat all the women in the female category he was obliged to fight in. But he had consistently asked to compete in the male category. That's a real sportsman IMO. He wanted to take part in the fight that he thought would be fairer, not the one he'd win easily.

I'm scared now

That's why I'm so pissed off. I'm scared

Just looked up the results of Mosier's world championship here. He came 26th out of 47 competitiors in his age group.

The more I think about it, the average woman will be beaten by the average MTT (with their post-puberty advantages of height, muscle mass, lung capacity, reach - all of which remain despite testosterone reduction) and women will also be beaten by the average FTT (their increase in testosterone is simple doping which has always been banned). The only fair way to ensure a fair and safe competition is to have female and open (male, MTT and FTT) categories.

I rather think Mosier has proved he can be competitive in the open category. Surely a MTT triathlete could be equally competitive in the open category too?

It's running, throwing and lifting. I don't care if a trans person is faster. I struggled to care enough to type a reply saying that I don't care. Hope that clarifies it for you.

Did you seriously just say that because you don't care about it, it doesn't matter? That has to be one of the most outstandingly selfish, self-centered things I've read here. Wowee.
Honestly, not a fan of sports here either, but I do care about fairness.

greenwool Thant would be Mack Beggs a wrestler from Texas.

This to me is more straightforward as a female competitor who took testosterone would be quickly banned from the sport under current doping rules. That a female should identify as male should not nullify these rules.

What's now being lobbied for - very hard indeed, by transactivists, their companion men's rights activists

What is it going to take for people to wake up.

I feel as though I've entered some mad alternative reality. I use twitter, but I daren't re-tweet most of the posts on trans issues from all the feminists I follow, because I am on there under my real name, and I have young daughters. I am genuinely scared of the abuse- It takes about three tweets for the rape threats and "Die Cis scum" stuff to start appearing, women need to wake up, this is the crushing of women.

Well hopefully people would be respectful enough and have enough common sense to not take part in sport when they know they have a biological advantage over everyone else in the first place. So all those Jamaicans with fast twitch muscles shouldn't run in the sprints, and the Kenyans shouldn't run in the marathon, the Dutch are the tallest nation so no basket ball for them. It will be a job and a half for someone to work it all out.

Nobody said that trans- shouldn't live so far

On another trans thread on here someone said women's spaces would go including having men on women's wards in hospital. I said I had just come out of hospital and I was on a mixed ward. I didn't say it was good, didn't promote it but I got attacked. When I said I was critically ill so I was glad I was treated one charming poster said it was critical enough, i.e. it should have been fatal. I'm not trans but just because I was on a mixed ward, not my choice, someone thought I shouldn't live. The post was removed when someone complained, not me I might add.

So all those Jamaicans with fast twitch muscles shouldn't run in the sprints, and the Kenyans shouldn't run in the marathon, the Dutch are the tallest nation so no basket ball for them. It will be a job and a half for someone to work it all out.

Deeply disingenuous.

Male Jamaican sprinters are beaten by sprinters of other nations, Kenyans are beaten in marathons, and the less said about Dutch basketball skills, then better.

Sportswomen are not able to defeat sportsmen.

Depends on the sport and the competitor. Are you saying those groups of people don't have a biological advantage?

Not enough to routinely win without exception, no. They can be, and are, defeated.

Re. Kenyan runners - it's not all Kenyan runners, but those from a particular set of villages within about a 5 mile radius, where there is a culture of running long distances from a very early age - i.e. it's largely socially driven, not genetic.

And there's a 10% gap, roughly, between men's and women's world records for running at all distances from 100m to marathon. Think about the final of the men's hundred metres - the first three or four runners home will be separated by hundredths of a second. Put the woman world record holder (or currently living woman with the fastest time) in the same field, and she'd be trailing by almost a second - i.e. 10m behind the winners.

I really wish some top female athletes would start speaking up about this, surely they must care?

Rhonda Rousey did. She was UFC women's champion, and she refused to fight Fallon Fox.

Bloody good on her!

www.out.com/sports/2015/7/16/ufc-womens-champ-refuses-fight-trans-athlete-fallon-fox

But they do have a biological advantage so according to the post I quoted they should be respectful enough not to compete.

"Socially driven" = "biological"? Are we even speaking the same language here?

granny - you know as well as I know that that poster was referring to male and female biology.

Kenyans, for example, don't have enough of a biological advantage to always win outright, so there's no issue.

Sport is not segregated by race.

It is however segregated by sex.

However there is no point in having sex segregated spaces if men can compete with women just because he says he feels like a woman.

granny has just put forward the other argument that my trans friend used, that I also had no answer to at the time. The basketball thing. They said that all competitive sports will favour those with genetic advantages - musculoskeletal, balance, body type or whatever. Therefore, they said, even if someone male-born does have an advantage over women, that's no different to any other inborn advantage like the height of a basketball player. I had no answer to that, other than to say that if you believe this, then women's sport is indeed dead in the water. It's back to biological relativity again.

Oh my GOD. Untwist your knickers, live and let live and at least try to be open minded. I don't know why MNHQ haven't cracked down on this transphobic behaviour.

There isn't any 'transphobic behaviour'. I am not afraid of trans people.
You're so busy trying to signal how virtuous and open-minded you are, you're not even bothering to read.
I am so tired of examination and criticism being called 'transphobia' (which I suspect doesn't actually exist; even dislike of something isn't fear of it).