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Original poster

Transgender students may not have to reveal birth sex to play sports

335 replies

Bambambini · 26/04/2017 13:13

"Transgender students should not have to declare their birth gender when applying to university sports clubs, the National Union of Students (NUS) is expected to rule.

It adds that trans and intersex students should not be asked to disclose their legal gender or personal medical information to participate in university sport, including details regarding hormone replacement therapy.

The motion suggests that the NUS follows the lead of Durham University’s new policy on inclusivity, whereby trans and intersex students are allowed to compete and train in whichever team “best fits their gender identity”."

Whole Telegraph article here www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/04/24/transgender-students-should-not-have-declare-birth-gender-applying/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
WindwardCircle · 26/04/2017 15:08

Do men do rhythmic gymnastics? Correct me if I'm with but I thought it was like synchronised swimming and is a female only competitive sport.

GahBuggerit · 26/04/2017 15:14

What a fantastic way to stop females competing in sport.

Mind you, we should be doing our nails, makeup and talking about how we know we are women because we like pink anyway so...... Hmm

QuinionsRainbow · 26/04/2017 15:20

the winner of the women's competition is so much taller, broader, faster and stronger than all the other competitors
Not to mention hairier!

NotStoppedAllDay · 26/04/2017 15:25

Women have had to fight to get accepted in the world of running. It's only since recent history (60's) that we have been allowed to run in marathons etc..... look what a woman had to do to run Boston marathon! Ironically, she had to dress and disguise herself as a man!!!

WankingMonkey · 26/04/2017 15:30

Its unfair on females. But noone cares about that.

Its a difficult topic because someone has to lose out. Even on hormones males have an advantage over females with differences in how they are built, pelvises, etc. Average females stand no chance against average males...no matter how hard they train.

IAmEatingACurry · 26/04/2017 15:32

This is so boring. another bloody transphobic thread

Confused Where's the transphobia in the OP?

Datun · 26/04/2017 15:34

Men and women's sport is separated by sex for a reason.

I'll never understand how this constantly needs an explanation.

Transgender students may not have to reveal birth sex to play sports
IAmEatingACurry · 26/04/2017 15:35

Without that, who is to question the sex of the person and what happens when you suspect they're lying?

Well hopefully people would be respectful enough and have enough common sense to not take part in sport when they know they have a biological advantage over everyone else in the first place.

Fortnum · 26/04/2017 15:36

Wow as a Man i really feel for Women in competitive sport, it isnt a level playing field at all of this is the case. I still feel tremendous empathy for the opponents of fallon fox who were beaten by a man in martial arts. Mental illness is terrible but perhaps its time to let these people know its not ok to force their medical issues on others.

greenwool · 26/04/2017 15:36

I had a brief discussion about this with a trans person I know - only brief because this is a dear friend and I don't feel able to say exactly what I think. The argument seems to be that biology itself is relative. They were talking about how hormone levels vary so much that (in their words, not mine): 'We don't actually KNOW that women assigned male at birth are stronger, faster, etc. than cis women. We don't KNOW that they have an advantage'. They then talked about intersex conditions that, they believe, illustrate that biology isn't a binary. They seemed to have a very empirical approach: unless you can physically test the hormone levels of every competitor - an impossible task unless at the highest level - then you simply can't state that men have an advantage.

This seems fundamentally wrong to me, but I'm not a biologist so wasn't able to refute it either. I would still have expected there to be an overwhelming statistical likelihood that biological men had higher testosterone (for one thing) than biological women.

VladmirsPoutine · 26/04/2017 15:37

One more for the erasion of woman scoreboard.

IAmEatingACurry · 26/04/2017 15:39

Mental illness is terrible but perhaps its time to let these people know its not ok to force their medical issues on others.

Be careful there now. It is now apparently transphobic to say that gender dysphoria is a mental illness (even though I can't see what else it could be).

Stating facts is transphobic now apparently Wink

JigglyTuff · 26/04/2017 15:40

Men naturally have much higher levels of testosterone than women. Even the lowest level that transwomen are allowed in the Olympics is much higher than the highest natural levels in women. Men have greater muscle mass, faster twitch and a bigger frame. Many also have bigger lung capacity.

The fastest woman is the world is slower than the top 100 men.

This is a policy that allows mediocre men to beat the very best women. Women's sport is dead

WankingMonkey · 26/04/2017 15:41

The fastest woman is the world is slower than the top 100 men.

Yes this really makes the point about how unfair it is tbh.

forlornalien · 26/04/2017 15:43

We don't actually KNOW that women assigned male at birth are stronger, faster, etc. than cis women.

But that's bollocks isn't it because they are not women assigned male at birth, they are male.if they are born with a penis etc then they are male and are not a woman. I could feel like a fucking giraffe but if I'm born a woman then I'm a woman not a giraffe no matter how much I wanted to be a giraffe.

RortyCrankle · 26/04/2017 15:44

You wonder why female athletes are pissed off now they are expected to compete against trans men with all the benefits a man has in sport. If I was an athlete I would be retiring.

How is it fair when in a female race, the first 3 places are won by trans men?

Its bullshit. It's not transphobic. It's one more thing that women get screwed over and are supposed to accept without complaint. If ALL female athletes refused to perform against these trans men, then the authorities would have to think again.

Never mind, I'm sure the Women's Equality Party will be thrilled, trans men are all they appear to give a shit about.

Fortnum · 26/04/2017 15:44

I dont really subscribe to labelling people "phobes" of any kind unless they have an irrational fear of a group. I am not afraid of Transexual people at all i just find is lt dissapointing that mental health care is insufficient for them. I certainly hope that they can see that in many cases they have developed fully as a male this will have given them advantages in muscle growth and bone density. This obviously doesnt include the transexuals who had their puberty halted and given hormone replacement - they are victims of child abuse and will invariably have more psycological issues to deal with.

terrylene · 26/04/2017 15:45

This shows the levels of testosterone difference between male and female.

TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL www.mayomedicallaboratories.com/test-catalog/Clinical+and+Interpretive/83686
Males

0-5 months: 75-400 ng/dL
6 months-9 years:

greenwool · 26/04/2017 15:45

I agree, forlorn. That's one of the things I didn't feel able to say, however gently, for fear of losing them as a friend.

sooperdooper · 26/04/2017 15:49

I really wish some top female athletes would start speaking up about this, surely they must care? Surely they must not want to see future female athletes ruled out of competitive sports?

Fruitcocktail6 · 26/04/2017 15:49

It does seem funny that this immediately becomes about protecting women's 'spaces' yet this is for trans people of both sexes.

Yes, transmen are just tripping over each other trying to compete in men's sport, where they will have no real chance of winning Hmm

AVirginLitTheCandle · 26/04/2017 15:51

This reply has been deleted

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AVirginLitTheCandle · 26/04/2017 15:52

I really wish some top female athletes would start speaking up about this, surely they must care?

I'm sure they do care very much however they're probably too scared to speak out for fear of being labelled bigots.

Fl0ellafunbags · 26/04/2017 15:56

Yes, YABU. Very.

JigglyTuff · 26/04/2017 15:58

Further to terrylene's post, T levels in men to compete as women in the Olympics have to be at or below 200ng/dL. So still more than double the highest women's levels.

Here are some world records for various types of athletics:

100m: M - 9.58s W - 10.49s
400m hurdles: M 46.7s W 52.34
10km: M - 26.4mins W - 30.2mins
30km: M - 1h 27m W - 1h 45m
High jump: M 2.45m W 2.09
Long jump: M 8.95m W7.52

In all sports, women's records come nowhere near men's. It's biology