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Transgender students may not have to reveal birth sex to play sports

335 replies

Bambambini · 26/04/2017 13:13

"Transgender students should not have to declare their birth gender when applying to university sports clubs, the National Union of Students (NUS) is expected to rule.

It adds that trans and intersex students should not be asked to disclose their legal gender or personal medical information to participate in university sport, including details regarding hormone replacement therapy.

The motion suggests that the NUS follows the lead of Durham University’s new policy on inclusivity, whereby trans and intersex students are allowed to compete and train in whichever team “best fits their gender identity”."

Whole Telegraph article here www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/04/24/transgender-students-should-not-have-declare-birth-gender-applying/

OP posts:
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C0RAL · 26/04/2017 16:41

Where I was at university, women were not allowed to compete in events like the marathon . Now they will be squeezed out of teams and records by people with male skeletons and lungs and hearts and hormones who feel female.

All within one lifetime Sad

AVirginLitTheCandle · 26/04/2017 16:41

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Datun · 26/04/2017 16:41

Usually if you're going to offer an opinion about a piece of writing, one of the most basic requirements is that you actually read it.

AVirginLitTheCandle · 26/04/2017 16:43

Stating facts about what is actually happening in the world is not scaremongering you muppet.

Megatherium · 26/04/2017 16:44

Well, that might be your first problem.

Well, no, it wouldn't. Having read the messages so far, I can see that it's progressing down the usual well-trodden path which I've read so often before on here, and no-one has found a new point to make on it. Is the thread seriously likely to produce anything novel over the next 500 messages?

And I see that AVirgin has demonstrated my point about aggression very neatly indeed.

BigDeskBob · 26/04/2017 16:44

Eventually the only reason for women's races and women's teams will be to validated MTT womanliness.

AVirginLitTheCandle · 26/04/2017 16:45

And I see that AVirgin has demonstrated my point about aggression very neatly indeed.

So sorry. I will get back in the kitchen this this instant.

Megatherium · 26/04/2017 16:46

I did read it, Datun; it appears that you didn't bother to read my post properly, however. I was expressing my intention not to bother to spend time reading more of what has been expressed so many, many, many times on here already.

greenwool · 26/04/2017 16:46

As a left-wing, liberal-voting, equality-advocating, Pride-marching survivor of homophobic abuse, I take no pleasure in suddenly being viewed by my teenagers as akin to Enoch Powell in my bigotry. I know that comes to all of us to some extent, but honestly I'd like nothing better than to be proved wrong on this issue. I'd love to hear a reassuring, non-aggressive explanation as to why my concerns are unfounded.

AVirginLitTheCandle · 26/04/2017 16:46

How dare women be outraged that their rights are being eroded left right and centre? They just need to STFU and let men tell them what being a woman actually is.

JigglyTuff · 26/04/2017 16:47

Except it is something new. It used to be that university students could only play for the team that was appropriate for their sex. That's now probably not going to be the case. Given that most professional athletes begin their careers at university, this is going to have a catastrophic effect on women's sport.

I think that's worth talking about. I care about women's sport.

Megatherium · 26/04/2017 16:48

Interesting that AVirgin makes such massive assumptions that expressing gentle dissent equates to being a misogynist and wanting women in the kitchen. Just for the record, I am a woman and a fully paid-up feminist; I just don't feel that constant threads scaremongering about a vulnerable and tiny minority do the feminist cause any good whatsoever.

AVirginLitTheCandle · 26/04/2017 16:48

So Megatherium what are your thoughts on men being allowed to compete with women just because they 'identify as women' (whatever that fucking means)?

AVirginLitTheCandle · 26/04/2017 16:50

I just don't feel that constant threads scaremongering about a vulnerable and tiny minority do the feminist cause any good whatsoever.

Then don't open them and don't bloody reply to them. It's not difficult.

BigDeskBob · 26/04/2017 16:51

I might start going into primary education or baking threads. Shout "this thread is of no relevance to me" and storm out.

Megatherium · 26/04/2017 16:52

I will worry about it when it happens in the UK, AVirgin. A motion in the NUS doesn't mean a whole lot. This is symptomatic of the reaction round here to Maria Miller's bill, which several people assumed meant that it would be impossible to keep trans women out of women's toilets, rape crisis centres and the like, whereas it says nothing of the sort.

Datun · 26/04/2017 16:54

I just don't feel that constant threads scaremongering about a vulnerable and tiny minority do the feminist cause any good whatsoever.

The reason theads are started in the first place is because of where the ideology is heading. Even in the last 18 months, this has changed. Men can now compete in women's sport without any testing.

It certainly is not following any guidelines that the International Olympic Committee produced.

There is a cultural shift where gender identity is eroding sex based rights. With nothing to back it up. There is nothing even being asked for as back up.

You must see this as a feminist issue, surely?

AVirginLitTheCandle · 26/04/2017 16:55

Why was my post at 15:51:04 deleted? I can't even remember what I said Blush

Ev1lEdna · 26/04/2017 16:55

I wonder how happy some people would be if their daughter was competing in athletics and then someone just came along and beat their times easily because they had the advantages of male biology and your daughter was disillusioned and thought 'what's the point in competing I can never beat this?' How would you feel? Would it be fair then?

Imagine this happened at your school:
anthrofeminist.blog/2017/04/14/the-andraya-yearwood-debacle-the-continued-assault-on-womens-sports/

gendertrender.wordpress.com/2017/04/09/equal-opportunity-for-girls-in-high-school-sports-strips-boys-of-their-humanity-says-hartford-courant-opinion-editor-carolyn-lumsden/

I am all for supporting people who transition, making sure they are safe from abuse and given the medical attentions they need particularly in mental health areas. I'm happy to use correct pronouns and accord appropriate respect. I am not happy that women are being ousted out of sports and you cannot deny that in the story above the girls are biologically outclassed. I would be upset if my daughter (if I had one) was discouraged because of this. Don't call me transphobic or a bigot for feeling that way, you can just call me a feminist for caring about women's rights and equality.

greenwool · 26/04/2017 17:01

So Megatherium, could I paraphrase your take on it as being that here, in the UK, nothing concrete has come by way of legislation that would disadvantage biological women in favour of trans rights?

If true, I would be a little reassured on my own behalf, but not yet fully reassured. That type of legislation has been passed in other countries, and it seems to be the direction of the wind here as well. Also, as a feminist I support the rights of women outside of the UK as well. I'm also worried because, if discussion is stifled by screams of bigotry, then the voice of those worried about women's rights risks being silenced.

Do you think any of those fears are unfounded?

Datun · 26/04/2017 17:06

Megatherium

If people don't realise the implications of self identity, these things go under the radar. America and Canada both have had massive issues as a direct result of gender identity being a protected characteristic.

Ireand has now passed it in law. Objections weren't heard, because no one was aware.

The legality around being reassigned as a woman is being completely bypassed left right and centre. Self identification implications are starting to happen already. Because none of it's being questioned.

People are being shut down. Debate is being stifled.

Culture is moving ahead of the law because people are aggressively told not to talk about it.

WankingMonkey · 26/04/2017 17:06

I wish some high profile male athletes would start talking about how unfair it is - it shouldn't take women to argue the point about how this effectively sounds the death knell for female sports. It should be patently obvious to anyone with half a brain

Yes, as soon as the males take notice people may start waking up. Though Ralph Knibbs was male and just ended up nearly dead through trying to speak up Confused

This crazyness will not stop until it negatively affects males in the same way it does females...but I cannot see this happening as transmen are not a danger to males. Maybe we should all start invading the blokes loos and causing queues everywhere. I am sure I read a story a few days back where a transman did just that, was using the mens and the blokes were uncomfortable with it and instead of being told to 'suck it up, transphobes' a stop was put to it immediately.

AVirginLitTheCandle · 26/04/2017 17:07

I will worry about it when it happens in the UK, AVirgin. A motion in the NUS doesn't mean a whole lot. This is symptomatic of the reaction round here to Maria Miller's bill, which several people assumed meant that it would be impossible to keep trans women out of women's toilets, rape crisis centres and the like, whereas it says nothing of the sort.

Um, Maria Miller said herself that rape crisis centres should be allowing transwomen in, both to work/volunteer there and to receive help and support there if they have been assaulted. Of course Maria Miller is the one behind the gender identity bill so to her a transwoman would be any man who identifies as a woman or says he is a woman. No transitioning needed.

Shit is already happening in the UK, we don't have to wait and see. The CPS has already advised schools that any boy who says he identifies as a girl should be allowed to use female facilities such as changing rooms and any girl who objects or feels uncomfortable could be charged with a hate crime.

Hospital policies have been changed, again to allow any man who identifies as a woman to stay in female hospital bays. These new policies state that it doesn't matter how long said man has been living as a woman or if they've made any effort to transition; if they say they're a woman then they're a woman basically. If any woman objects to this then she is told to STFU basically. Her feelings and rights don't matter; as long as the man who feels like a woman and his feelings are validated then that's all that matters.

Transwomen have also started being sent to female prisons when they commit crimes. Coincidentally (or probably not) all these transwomen or men who identify as women have all been sex offenders and committed sex crimes against women. But you know whatever, just send them to female prison, it's cool Hmm

Maria Miller's bill may not have been passed and it may not ever be but the problem is is that there are places and organisations who are already changing policies as if it gender identity is law already.

Datun · 26/04/2017 17:15

You can't base a whole raft of civil rights around a feeling in someone's head.

You can't legally be able to redefine the word woman because some men have gender dysphoria (although it's too late for that one).

Most people are entirely unaware of what is at stake here.

The ramifications go on and on.

WankingMonkey · 26/04/2017 17:18

I will worry about it when it happens in the UK, AVirgin.

Is this not in the UK? I assumed this was Durham Uni meaning...well Durham Uni UK. I know there is a Durham in another country though.

Out of curiosity, what would be your solution to trans people and sports? A lot of people come on these threads, basically yell 'bigots' and leave but I genuinely would like to see arguments from the opposite side.

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