To not understand all of this Corbyn hate

[clevername]

Disclaimer – I consider myself to be an intelligent and thoughtful person but also very uninformed and ignorant of political (and other) current affairs. Largely through my own choosing – I have virtually no faith in politicians and politics at all. I realised a very long time ago that the whole thing was an elaborate farce. I’ve always spoilt my ballot until Nick Clegg won me over and then proved, unequivocally, that I was right to not trust them. I vowed never to vote again but I’m feeling stirred to this time around and have therefore been looking into it more and trying to sift through the inevitable bullshit…

So – what is so bad about Corbyn? From what I understand (do remember my disclaimer and how uninformed I am!), the main people in the Labour party hate him because he is ‘unelectable’. So they’ve wanted him out for a long time but he has refused to go, on account of the fact he has been democratically chosen by the party members to be the leader. This annoys and frustrates them and they therefore blame him for creating an enormous and damaging rift in the party. But, surely, the fact that he has been elected as leader is testament to his popularity with Labour voters? And isn’t it a good thing that he stands his ground? Especially against the kind of people who would rather have someone like Ed Milliband (or his ilk – I don’t know any ‘current’ names) as party leader? Doesn’t it show that he is principled and ‘different’ from the political norm? Isn’t this something that we need?

And what does it matter if the Labour party are in shambles (a common reason I hear for not wanting to vote for them this time)? Surely that’s because of all of the ‘unelectable’ stuff above. But if he were to be elected, I’m guessing those problems would evaporate. Because he would have been elected. And anyway, aren’t political parties often shambolic? Wasn’t May’s drastic cabinet overhaul and sackings at the beginning of her reign (not to mention the Boris/Gove thing in the leadership contest) a clear sign of an ununited, shambolic party?

I realise Corbyn isn’t to everyone’s tastes politically but if you’re left leaning and want to try and get rid of the Tories, surely he’s not such a bad bet?

I’m sorry if this is making me come across as stupid but I genuinely want to know why some people (especially those who would normally consider themselves left-wing or Labour voters) dislike him so much.

One of the most commonly occurring personal attack points that right-wingers use against Jeremy Corbyn is that he openly talked to the IRA in the 1980s and '90s.

The problem with this right-wing narrative (like with so many other right-wing narratives) is that it's totally undermined by facts and reality.

These people know that Corbyn talked to the IRA because he did it openly, but at the very same time Corbyn was openly talking to the IRA the political establishment were conducting secret backdoor deals with them.
In 1972 the Tory government of Edward Heath conducted secret negotiations with the IRA. The truth was only revealed in 2003.
Margaret Thatcher always used to insist that she did not negotiate with terrorists, but in 2011 declassified documents revealed that that's exactly what she did. She negotiated with the IRA in 1981 during the hunger strikes, and the documents detailing the negotiating position of the UK government even featured annotations in her handwriting!
Thatcher also gave her personal approval to secret talks with the IRA in 1990 too. So much for her not negotiating with terrorists rhetoric eh?
In 1993 the revelation that John Major's government had been conducting secret talks with the IRA created a huge political scandal, with several Tory MPs (who were clearly unaware of Thatcher's secret talks with the IRA) reacting with horror at the revelation that the not negotiating with terrorists line was a total lie.
In 2008 it was revealed that the UK government maintained a secret back channel to talk with the IRA for two decades all the way from 1973 and 1993.
From 1997 onward Tony Blair's government conducted negotiations with the IRA that eventually led to the Good Friday Agreement, the power-sharing deal and the successful deescalation of the troubles. During this process Tony Blair had secret talks with the IRA in 1999.
In 2010 an Tory peer called David James openly admitted that he had a history of secretly laundering money for the IRA. He still sits in the unelected House of Lords as a Tory peer!
It's astoundingly hypocritical for right-wingers to slam Corbyn for having openly talked to the IRA when the political establishment they're defending were doing the same thing in but in secret for decades. But then hypocrisy (which stems from fact-aversion and immunity to cognitive dissonance) is an extremely common trait amongst right-wingers, and especially extreme right-wingers isn't it?

anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/

Justanother your naivety is breathtaking.

There is a world of difference between Thatcher, Major and Blair holding secret talks with the IRA and Corbyn openly speaking to them and the difference is not what you think it is.

Thatcher et al were the prime ministers and were in a position to negotiate and implement deals for the greater good even if it did mean they had to speak to these odious people in secret.

Corbyn was a nobody with no power to offer anything or to agree anything.

Speaking publicly to and being besty friends with these people achieved nothing other than showing he is a contrarian with poor judgement.

JustAnother - talking to the IRA (in order to start to create the sort of relationships that could lead to a peace process) is one thing. Glorifyng, supporting and promoting the IRA is something very different.

Guess what JC did when he attended a Republican event in 1988 to commemorate and support IRA "soldiers". Guess what a magazine (of which JC was a member of its editorial board) did in 1984 following the Brighton bombing.

Not just right wingers justanotherposter.

Is Fox News now "not Mainstream Media"?

That'll come as shock to Rupert Murdoch...

Fair dos Clevername, happy to hold my hands up to that one. Sometimes it's hard to tell from an OP if someone is asking in the spirit of genuine enquiry or whether they're posting with an agenda.

I'd like to be clear that my issues are absolutely not with ordinary voters who support JC, not having a pop at them at all, it's the man himself and his political clique I don't like.

Sorry, that was a belated response to flippinada's "undeniable fact that Trump won the US presidency without MSM support."

Hardly.

Yes Perking Fox News supported Trump. However, support was far from universal in the US and UK media. Should anyone produce evidence* to the contrary I will cheerfully concede the point.

*this doesn't mean blog posts written by someone with an agenda so blatant it can be spotted from outer space.

Corbyn is unelectable is euphemistic - it's become the polite way of saying 'I won't vote for him'

I won't vote for him because his front bench is devoid of talent, all the moderates have gone. I won't vote for him because I don't like his policies - too much change, poorly thought out, too quickly. I don't think he has smart solutions for the world we live in - multinational tax dodging needs a global solution, for example. I don't think he can be trusted to execute foreign policy. I didn't like what he did to benn over airstrikes. I don't like what happened to Coyne over the unite leadership fight.

all the moderates have gone.

I recently watched a documentary about the american civil rights movement in the states, its called 'eyes on the prize'. The congressmen in the south that were calling on african americans integration into the school system to be slower than what eisenhower was suggesting were also called moderates, suprising how those people who want to keep their own vested interest at heart always seem to be called moderates, the neo liberals, left and right are afraid of the status quo being challenged, I have no clue what point Im trying to make but it was something that I noticed while watching the documentary

I don't mind the status quo being challenged - I just wish Corbyn would do less, better. Take disability benefits, make the system fairer and tax people to fund it and be clear about what he's doing. I know some people want a revolution after years of Tory rule and are very frustrated but a lot of his policies could result in higher unemployment if not done carefully (higher minimum wage, for example).

JC and those around him like to present him as representing a new kind of politics and anti-stablishment..but he's made a very comfortable living as part of the establishment, hasn't he?

Yes as far as I can see, JC has been posturing in Islington for his whole life. He's hardly had a tough time down the mines. I'd have a lot more respect for him if he'd done something more worthwhile with the 60 odd years he's had so far

They could have Sooty as leader and I'd still vote Labour over that bunch of disabled hating cunts.

He's hardly had a tough time down the mines.

Most MP's in the HoC havent been down the mines either, whats your point? If thats your base, should Dennis Skinner be labour leader? and if you feel that how do you feel about his support of JC?

JustAnotherPoster00 - what's the history of the IRA peace talks got to do with Corbyn? He wasn't involved and would have scuppered them if he could. Saying that Corbyn talked to the IRA and then listing actual political achievements by other people while insinuating Corbyn had something to do with it is misleading propaganda.

The point, Just, as I'm sure you can't really not have grasped, is that most mps aren't painting themselves, or being painted, as a breath of fresh air/New politics/salt of the earth people's people blah blah blah.

True, most MPs are career politicians days. I should've said that there is nothing about JC's past I admire and left it at that. As for Skinner, he's supported many labour leaders over the years.

I like Jeremy Corbyn a lot. He is the best weapon the Tories have!!

what's the history of the IRA peace talks got to do with Corbyn?

I already said that the GF agreement had nothing to do with him but at least he was trying to open a discourse with them and I honestly admire that, we cud look at Blair, yes he brokered the GF with Major and then took us into a highly dubious war in Iraq and now you have Theresa Mayhem grovelling to the Saudis with their human rights record, just dont see Corbyn doing that, or at least I hope not, I know my viewpoint isnt agreeing with some of you but I'm not trying to be goady I just think that from what I've watched ever since I was able to vote that he is at least talking about/trying to tackle some of the things I think are an issue in todays society.

I agree with that just some of the issues he's tackling I agree are important. I did laugh at appearing's comment about sooty. My family members in receipt of DLA who have been led a merry dance under the tories are voting for him too. I wish he was better than he is though.

I am a big Jeremy supporter - have seen him speak several times and he truly is passionate about making a fairer Britain for all (and not just the rich). I always voted Labour previously but joined following his appointment as leader - he's one of the few politicians I feel like I can trust.

Don't see the issue with him previously being a "backbencher who votes against his party" - surely it's not unreasonable for him to vote for what he believes and not what the rest of his (sometimes questionable) party do.

"Unelectable" is a myth - they said he wouldn't be re-elected as leader again and he was!!

Also wish people would look more into his approach to peace - when recently asked he hasn't ruled out other approaches but just maintains he would prefer negotiations to be peaceful - i.e. he knows not all world problems will be solved over talks but he won't immediately reach for the nuke button!!! Not that crazy??

Even if Labour don't win this election and Jeremy eventually steps down, I know a lot of young people have become interested in politics because of him which is a great thing

You know when people say unelectable they mean by THE WHOLE COUNTRY rather than the tiny minority motivated enough to join the Labour party, yes?

NoLottery I thinks thats what scares me the most, I'm currently in receipt of PIP nd ESA, I used to be able to access mental health support, and I'm watching the tories rip away any security I might have, while the media do the constant drip drip drip of disinformation about him and the stonewalling, including the neo liberal wing of the labour party , and then you get the trope of we need a strong opposition by the conservatives , well excuse me if I dont want tory light as the opposition we saw how that went with the welfare bill when harriet harman was in charge. Dont know where I was going with that but meh lol

You know when people say unelectable they mean by THE WHOLE COUNTRY rather than the tiny minority motivated enough to join the Labour party, yes?

Laura Kussenberg sponsored crystal ball anyone?