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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To not understand all of this Corbyn hate

491 replies

clevername · 25/04/2017 22:23

Disclaimer – I consider myself to be an intelligent and thoughtful person but also very uninformed and ignorant of political (and other) current affairs. Largely through my own choosing – I have virtually no faith in politicians and politics at all. I realised a very long time ago that the whole thing was an elaborate farce. I’ve always spoilt my ballot until Nick Clegg won me over and then proved, unequivocally, that I was right to not trust them. I vowed never to vote again but I’m feeling stirred to this time around and have therefore been looking into it more and trying to sift through the inevitable bullshit…

So – what is so bad about Corbyn? From what I understand (do remember my disclaimer and how uninformed I am!), the main people in the Labour party hate him because he is ‘unelectable’. So they’ve wanted him out for a long time but he has refused to go, on account of the fact he has been democratically chosen by the party members to be the leader. This annoys and frustrates them and they therefore blame him for creating an enormous and damaging rift in the party. But, surely, the fact that he has been elected as leader is testament to his popularity with Labour voters? And isn’t it a good thing that he stands his ground? Especially against the kind of people who would rather have someone like Ed Milliband (or his ilk – I don’t know any ‘current’ names) as party leader? Doesn’t it show that he is principled and ‘different’ from the political norm? Isn’t this something that we need?

And what does it matter if the Labour party are in shambles (a common reason I hear for not wanting to vote for them this time)? Surely that’s because of all of the ‘unelectable’ stuff above. But if he were to be elected, I’m guessing those problems would evaporate. Because he would have been elected. And anyway, aren’t political parties often shambolic? Wasn’t May’s drastic cabinet overhaul and sackings at the beginning of her reign (not to mention the Boris/Gove thing in the leadership contest) a clear sign of an ununited, shambolic party?

I realise Corbyn isn’t to everyone’s tastes politically but if you’re left leaning and want to try and get rid of the Tories, surely he’s not such a bad bet?

I’m sorry if this is making me come across as stupid but I genuinely want to know why some people (especially those who would normally consider themselves left-wing or Labour voters) dislike him so much.

OP posts:

Thread gallery

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 29/04/2017 22:14

So no not I'm not a 'Red Tory' or any other label JC supporters wish to call me

I probably am a 'Red Tory' despite having voted Labour in every general election I've ever voted in since my first in 1979. The Labour party needs a new Blair.

Lalsy · 29/04/2017 22:16

And again, so persuasive. Dry, why don't you read the thread? We are pissed off and in despair BECAUSE WE HATE WHAT THE TORIES ARE DOING. Sorry for the caps but this has been said umpteen times and none of you will address what posters are actually saying. About 3 million posts ago, I said I wouldn't mind JC being a disastrous leader if I wanted the tories to win or thought they were doing a good job.

Lalsy · 29/04/2017 22:17

Can you point to some lies, Dry? The only one I noticed is you saying JC did not oppose the Anglo-Irish agreement. I posted a link to Hansard proving that he did, and you went silent.

NoLotteryWinYet · 30/04/2017 07:33

I'm probably a red Tory - I'd vote for increases in the min wage, income taxes, benefits etc if it was being implemented by politicians I could trust.

Headofthehive55 · 30/04/2017 07:43

Absolutely nolottery.
Being very left wing is as unpalatable as being too right wing to me.
I hope Corbyn gets dropped after this election.
I don't think he would spend money wisely.

Headofthehive55 · 30/04/2017 07:49

I do think the labour supporters are insulting when they suggest that tories want to attack the vulnerable. Or suggesting that people who are voting Tory don't care about the vulnerable. We do. We just want a good economy to pay for it.
Labour policies just make other inequalities that are brushed under the carpet.
Take the minimum wage for example. Raising it makes it close to the hourly rate that I earn, and have studied for. I see that as unjust.

makeourfuture · 30/04/2017 08:06

Or suggesting that people who are voting Tory don't care about the vulnerable. We do. We just want a good economy to pay for it.

I'll take your word for it. But now, on the ground, targeting the vulnerable is not helping the economy.

Headofthehive55 · 30/04/2017 08:48

Labour also target the vulnerable too. In my home area, they took away services from one area to give to a more favoured area. So labour take away too.

NoLotteryWinYet · 30/04/2017 09:12

Minimum wage hikes won't help vulnerable either much according to the IFS that much - will give labour a lot more wage setting power - assuming it doesn't result in a lot of job losses.

Call me suspicious but tories wanted to raise it to reduce their tax credit bill, labour promised to hike it further so that they can have 1 in 7 people having their wages set by the govt.

None of that is desirable to me or helping the poor. I have no idea at what point we decided that minimum wage increases shouldn't be set and tested by the LPC as it was when it was introduced.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 30/04/2017 10:10

It seems that McDonell on Preston wants Unions to be in charge of wages.

Cloud cuckoo land.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 30/04/2017 10:17

Oh and he has confirmed tax rises to pay for policies. For example.

To pay for everything they have so far announced would mean huge tax rises.

Watch the voters now fade away further.

NoLotteryWinYet · 30/04/2017 10:19

It was only a matter of time - shows how talentless they are that they tried to go after them for merely abandoning a previous manifesto commitment not to raise income taxes!

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 30/04/2017 10:25

Was that a rise to the basic rate of income tax or just high earners

As to really get anything back from raising tax you need to raise the basic rate as that is what the vast majority in the UK are only in this tax bracket

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 30/04/2017 10:40

Was that a rise to the basic rate of income tax or just high earners

High earners but refused to state what that was. Let's not forget 70k has been floated by them as high. Going along the old Corporation tax line again. Complete fantasy.

makeourfuture · 30/04/2017 10:45

Take the minimum wage for example. Raising it makes it close to the hourly rate that I earn, and have studied for. I see that as unjust.

This is why philosophy is important. The implication here is that those on minimum wage have not tried as hard.

We can talk about the nuts and bolts of a minimum wage hike all we like, but if we continue to base the way we view people along these lines, if this is the ingrained Tory view - that those at the bottom are there because they are lazy - then in the end, they will thwart any efforts towards equality.

Is Corbyn the person for the job? I don't know. But this is the conversation Labour must have. Do we buy the Tory line...are the poor lazy? By extension, are the wealthy "good"?

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 30/04/2017 10:54

Is Corbyn the person for the job? I don't know. But this is the conversation Labour must have.

Yep they have though. The majority of PLP don't want him. MPs haven't standing in the next election because of him. Labour voters don't like him. Yet he refuses to go and there are very good sources saying he will stay on after the election. After all Labours decimation is nothing at all to do with him is it.

Do we buy the Tory line...are the poor lazy? By extension, are the wealthy "good"?

No nor do I buy the Labour line of the Tories being the Nasty Party or all Tories are evil, selfish etc either.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 30/04/2017 10:55

After watching STRONG AND STABLE Marr and Peston STRONG AND STABLE this morning I think May has upped her STRONG AND STABLE game I think she is going to STRONG AND STABLE be the best Prime Minister STRONG AND STABLE ever.

I dont think the propaganda is getting to me yet

kistanbul · 30/04/2017 10:59

It makes me so sad and angry that he might stay on.

If you care about the vulnerable, the priority should be replacing the conservative government.

That's why I sideeye Corbyn supporters saying they care. They don't care about the vulnerable as much as they care about Corbyn.

All this stuff about, "I won't support Tory-lite!" We'll bully for you, but that just means we get Tory-hard-and-heavy. How does that help the vulnerable?

Gwenhwyfar · 30/04/2017 11:02

"That's why I sideeye Corbyn supporters saying they care. They don't care about the vulnerable as much as they care about Corbyn. "

This.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 30/04/2017 11:11

Ian Levery MP being grilled by O'Neill. He can't answer how it will be funded.

NoLotteryWinYet · 30/04/2017 11:14

Couldn't agree more.

makeourfuture · 30/04/2017 11:17

Yep they have though.

"Nope" they haven't. The question, I will state it again, is whether we believe the Tory line that the poor and lower-waged are in their condition because of their actions/make-up? Perhaps for some. But is the structure of society a main contributor?

Labour must define where they stand on this. Do we believe that we can make society more equal, or do we adopt the Tory line and try to just not be quite so tough?

Corbyn is just a person....he, like all of us, will not be around forever....but this question is at the heart of Labour's trouble.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 30/04/2017 11:31

The question, I will state it again, is whether we believe the Tory line that the poor and lower-waged are in their condition because of their actions/make-up? Perhaps for some. But is the structure of society a main contributor?

Nothing is that black and white.

Labour is yet again this morning dishing out policies with not being able to state how it will be funded.

It is all very well Labour saying they want a fairer society but you have to state how and how much it will cost otherwise the electorate will laugh at you and go elsewhere.

You don't get into government by having good ideologies and no way of implementing it. Nor can you do much unless you are in government.

Labour also needs to look at its sneering at others that don't agree with them. Of you are on Twitter have a look at RevRichardCole (from the Communardes fame) it's those sorts of replies to a tweet of his that puts people off.

Dragongirl10 · 30/04/2017 11:34

I have a deep fear of our national security were Corbyn to win the election.
Whilst l certainly do not 'hate him' ( That is a childish comment ) l feel he is totally unable to run a country with his views.

His views on no nuclear deterrent, reducing armed forces, calling abhorent regimes 'friends' strike fear into me....

Is he really going to talk to IS and stop them carrying out terror attacks? I think not.

Is he going to ' talk' other threats to the UK into submission...

All the things making people 'hate the Tories' are minor compared to our National Security.

Terror attacks are happening all over Europe and we have prevented many attacks here....due to our very effective police and armed forces,

I am incredulous anyone can want to vote for anyone who would undermine this.

BelleTheSheepdog · 30/04/2017 11:36

Makeourfuture do you believe we should all earn the same?

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