To not understand all of this Corbyn hate

[clevername]

Disclaimer – I consider myself to be an intelligent and thoughtful person but also very uninformed and ignorant of political (and other) current affairs. Largely through my own choosing – I have virtually no faith in politicians and politics at all. I realised a very long time ago that the whole thing was an elaborate farce. I’ve always spoilt my ballot until Nick Clegg won me over and then proved, unequivocally, that I was right to not trust them. I vowed never to vote again but I’m feeling stirred to this time around and have therefore been looking into it more and trying to sift through the inevitable bullshit…

So – what is so bad about Corbyn? From what I understand (do remember my disclaimer and how uninformed I am!), the main people in the Labour party hate him because he is ‘unelectable’. So they’ve wanted him out for a long time but he has refused to go, on account of the fact he has been democratically chosen by the party members to be the leader. This annoys and frustrates them and they therefore blame him for creating an enormous and damaging rift in the party. But, surely, the fact that he has been elected as leader is testament to his popularity with Labour voters? And isn’t it a good thing that he stands his ground? Especially against the kind of people who would rather have someone like Ed Milliband (or his ilk – I don’t know any ‘current’ names) as party leader? Doesn’t it show that he is principled and ‘different’ from the political norm? Isn’t this something that we need?

And what does it matter if the Labour party are in shambles (a common reason I hear for not wanting to vote for them this time)? Surely that’s because of all of the ‘unelectable’ stuff above. But if he were to be elected, I’m guessing those problems would evaporate. Because he would have been elected. And anyway, aren’t political parties often shambolic? Wasn’t May’s drastic cabinet overhaul and sackings at the beginning of her reign (not to mention the Boris/Gove thing in the leadership contest) a clear sign of an ununited, shambolic party?

I realise Corbyn isn’t to everyone’s tastes politically but if you’re left leaning and want to try and get rid of the Tories, surely he’s not such a bad bet?

I’m sorry if this is making me come across as stupid but I genuinely want to know why some people (especially those who would normally consider themselves left-wing or Labour voters) dislike him so much.

based on the increased min wage, going after multi nats (it's not clear how) and raising corporation taxes.

You know if you are against these things....perhaps your fundamental views don't really mesh with a leftist party. Not being snarky.

Oh I am definitely in favour fwiw make butbthry need to be done in a skilled and sensible way and carefully tested to make sure they don't cause higher unemployment - or is that fine with you? Unemployment ain't fine with me.

Lot, that is an old argument isn't it? Seems there is always someone finding a reason to keep people on low wages/receiving in-work benefits.

I am not sure a firm link has ever been established between increasing the minimum wage and higher unemployment rates.

There was a lot of concern when it was first brought in under Blair, and tax rises and forced wage rises at some point definitely will have an effect on employment. It may be an old argument but it is still a true one - it's true that Blair managed to get the initial level set correctly, so there was no noticeable employment effect, that by no means tells us that there wouldn't be one.

The IFS makes this point better than I have:

www.ifs.org.uk/publications/8694

If you read this, it just shows what a class act the early Blair years were - advice on there level from the independent low pay commission, taken out of politicians' hands. A good job done by experts.

120,000 potential job losses from JC's min wage policy alone, and also most likely to benefit second earners with a higher paid spouse.

A good job done by experts

[swoons wth delight]

That is indeed a very interesting opinion piece.

The good old days - for us nostalgic moderates:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/29/new-labour-20-years-on-tony-blair-david-miliband-peter-mandelson-alastair-campbell

What a great day that was

I wonder how those in the party that hated Blair felt on that day were he happy or pissed off

I guess many disliked Blair from the start as he made changes very quickly much like how I and many others feel about Corbyn though he won't win the election and this is why so many of us are angry

I like his old-fashioned lefty ideals. I can't help thinking that
(a) all the other stuff thrown at him is likely true for many other politicians as well and,
(b) many people dislike him because the trendy middle-class left might have to give up some of their privilege in the context of policies that target the truly needy.

Nothing is more damning than the fact that, 20 years on, Jeremy Corbyn is leader and Labour is about to be annihilated

From that article- so true. Still never mind Corbyn has his principles to keep him warm.

I agree with him on a lot of things, but there are two things.One, he is a Brexiteer at heart. He didn't work hard enough for Remain and had let May do whatever she wants on the issue. He seems to be palying a game with Keir Starmer appealing to Labour remainers.
The other thing is that he's unelectable. It doesn't matter why that is, but it will leave us with a new Con govt with a massive majority. He should step down.

You may not like him, but is it worth killing the NHS over?

In my experience it is more the middle class some trendy others that like lentils that do like Corbyn more than anyone else

It is not a matter of killing the NHS

He is unelectable and the vast majority of people knew that as soon as he stepped into the role and has proven to be so by shockingly bad results at the polls. For a Labour leader to be electable they need to appeal to floating and centre voters he doesn't and has no desire to and hasn't in anyway proved himself as a creditable opposition leader

Plus his proposals are flimsy he needs to win voters over with solid workable proposals remember the Tories don't need win more voters but they certainly will

Then of course his connections, his history and so on

Maxine Peake is waffling on about being a Corbyn supporter in today's Guardian.

Enthusiasm post at 14:24 should be a permanent stickie.

Oh and the Conservatives are not killing off the NHS.

Plus his proposals are flimsy he needs to win voters over with solid workable proposals

Haven't we been over this? It's getting a bit Sisyphusian.

Yes I read that Lass

Apparently wherever she goes Corbyn is there

Mmm don't we know it give him a crown and a speaker phone and his job is done

John McDonnell is also hinting there will be no increase to NI or VAT with all his extra funding promised

Crowd

Not crown

Have we make

New proposals are put forward daily or hints at what shall be in the manifesto

I agree with you enthusiam labour has to appeal to centre voters and floating ones to win.
Ve always been a labour voter, have leaflet tied for them in the past, but prefer more centre left rather than far left.
I'm considering voting Tory. Ouch never thought I'd do that!

I think it's the trendy middle class left that's keeping Corbyn going. The comfortably off ones who admire his principles and won't be too badly affected by benefit cuts, slashed public services, economic crashes and so on.

Meanwhile, people at the sharp end will continue to suffer.