To not understand all of this Corbyn hate

[clevername]

Disclaimer – I consider myself to be an intelligent and thoughtful person but also very uninformed and ignorant of political (and other) current affairs. Largely through my own choosing – I have virtually no faith in politicians and politics at all. I realised a very long time ago that the whole thing was an elaborate farce. I’ve always spoilt my ballot until Nick Clegg won me over and then proved, unequivocally, that I was right to not trust them. I vowed never to vote again but I’m feeling stirred to this time around and have therefore been looking into it more and trying to sift through the inevitable bullshit…

So – what is so bad about Corbyn? From what I understand (do remember my disclaimer and how uninformed I am!), the main people in the Labour party hate him because he is ‘unelectable’. So they’ve wanted him out for a long time but he has refused to go, on account of the fact he has been democratically chosen by the party members to be the leader. This annoys and frustrates them and they therefore blame him for creating an enormous and damaging rift in the party. But, surely, the fact that he has been elected as leader is testament to his popularity with Labour voters? And isn’t it a good thing that he stands his ground? Especially against the kind of people who would rather have someone like Ed Milliband (or his ilk – I don’t know any ‘current’ names) as party leader? Doesn’t it show that he is principled and ‘different’ from the political norm? Isn’t this something that we need?

And what does it matter if the Labour party are in shambles (a common reason I hear for not wanting to vote for them this time)? Surely that’s because of all of the ‘unelectable’ stuff above. But if he were to be elected, I’m guessing those problems would evaporate. Because he would have been elected. And anyway, aren’t political parties often shambolic? Wasn’t May’s drastic cabinet overhaul and sackings at the beginning of her reign (not to mention the Boris/Gove thing in the leadership contest) a clear sign of an ununited, shambolic party?

I realise Corbyn isn’t to everyone’s tastes politically but if you’re left leaning and want to try and get rid of the Tories, surely he’s not such a bad bet?

I’m sorry if this is making me come across as stupid but I genuinely want to know why some people (especially those who would normally consider themselves left-wing or Labour voters) dislike him so much.

As a northern irish voter our votes will make little difference to the make up of the house of commons, however JC’s links to the IRA and other terrorist organisations are important to me and I hope that a man like this cannot ever be PM.

He’s done his best to white wash his history, but attending IRA memorials, yes drystone there was ONE civilian killed at Loughgall, however the IRA where there to ambush the police station and thankfully intelligence found out, or there would have been a lot more casualties.

The two links below show how he has portrayed himself, though since moving seats he is trying his best to rewrite this.

Also have a look at the briefing in this link uk.businessinsider.com/jeremy-corbyn-links-to-the-ira-2015-10 published after the Brighton bombing, if you can stomach it. He was editor at the time.

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/05/jeremy-corbyn-should-not-be-allowed-to-rewrite-the-history-of-his-support-for-the-ira/

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/jeremy-corbyn-the-artful-dodger-a-transcript-of-his-nolan-interview-31430884.html

I really don't understand those of you slating Jeremy Corbyn!! The media are totally biased, the BBC being the main culprits but, of course, they are government run!
Can you really watch the NHS fall apart completely if the Tories get back in?? Not only that our deficit has risen threefold since the Tories came into power and they have the indecency to cut money for those who are disabled, old or lower working wage!!! It's about time these large companies (and wealthy bosses) paid the full amount of taxes owed by them and not be allowed to put money in tax free safe havens! This general election is not all about Brexit or how to make the rich richer, we MUST start looking after our own people, not everyone is a benefit scrounged - just remember one day you or partner could fall foul of an accident or disabling illness then you'd need all the help you can get! In this election please do think of those less fortunate than yourselves.

Have you read the thread Jules?

Who knew. All those years I knocked on doors and delivered leaflets for the labour party I was actually a Tory and had no understanding of socialism. It doesnt matter what is embedded in your ideology if you don't win elections. That was the point I was making about his ideology being more important to him than the disabled and the poor. I understand what socialism is!

Clearly not .

As on other threads, I would really like to hear from JC supporters actually addressing the points made by Labour members or supporters here who do not rate him. So far, we have been insulted by in implying we would like vulnerable people to die, uncritically read the biassed press, or support the current government. (Drystone, thank you for engaging with the arguments.). But it never happens.

Sorry, the clearly not was whether a PP had read the thread.

I was going to say Drystone put up a stout defence of my issues with Corbyn. Obviously I still think I have the measure of the man but appreciate its one interpretation on the evidence available.

It's ok Lalsy I got it.

I really don't understand those of you slating Jeremy Corbyn!!

Then maybe read the thread and see posters points.

All too convenient to blame the media etc. Strikes me as 'it's all their fault nothing to do with me'.

In this election please do think of those less fortunate than yourselves.

You know nothing about me, my situation or of others that would normally vote Labour but can't with Corbyn at the helm.

An easy throw away line to make which is unfair and ridiculous.

Media is largely right wing. They report attacks and critical of corbyn more than cons.

The media are totally biased, the BBC being the main culprits but, of course, they are government run!
Then please explain how the Tories got back in when Labour when the ran the BBC.

Not only that our deficit has risen threefold since the Tories came into power and they have the indecency to cut money for those who are disabled, old or lower working wage!!!
Perhaps go and check the difference between 'deficit' and 'debt'. Try looking at this link

Media is largely right wing. They report attacks and critical of corbyn more than cons.

Yes but to blame his poor performance on them alone is wrong. He has to take responsibility himself too. However Corbynites are all to quick to point figures and blame others.

OK, attribute some of the terrible polls to media bias. JC's toxic past and associations predictably gave them a feast - why did anyone think that wouldn't happen and it wouldn't be likely to be terribly damaging? The purpose of the Labour Party is not to give Jeremy a chance.

And it cannot all be media bias. The links included on this thread have plenty of facts from reliable sources (Hansard, original news clippings, video of him speaking) - that is the sort of source that I used in making up my mind.

People in despair at JC's leadership are not usually supporters of the tories - the tories are delighted about it!

I was at a dinner where Sir Malcolm Rifkind (Thatcher's foreign secretary) said he took no pleasure at all in Labour being in such disarray and that a strong and effective opposition is essential.

I think your judgment of what makes a good/bad performance is different than mine. I am very happy to swap decency, integrity, and compassion, from the lies, personal insults and downright cruelty that come from the Conservatives.The bottom line I think is one's attitude to one's fellow human. Whatever you think of Corbyn, if you dislike how the Tories favour improving the lives of the rich and powerful over everyone else's lives and think nothing of punishing the disadvantaged, then the decent thing to do in my opinion is to help get this lot out. I think I will just leave it at that.

Performance is the wrong word for my issues with Corbyn. I don't see decency and compassion in him.

I fear his type of purity. It has no good sense in it.

I don't hate him. I just don't think he/Len McLuskey would be a good Prime Minister. He is a good leader of a demo though.

I certainly don't think he is a Mutton-headed mugwump or whatever Boris called him today either.

I am very happy to swap decency, integrity, and compassion, from the lies, personal insults and downright cruelty that come from the Conservatives

Please let's not pretend that Labour are all paragons of virtue. It is a very blinkered view.

Lass, yes, some decent/thoughtful MPs and conservative supporters do think that and some say they do because they know it is the decent thing to say. My point was in response to the endless trope on these threads of people replying to criticisms of JC by Lab supporters and members by saying the critics must therefore be supporting the tories or approve of this government's actions. I think the strength of feeling and despair is from people in Labour who want a chance of government and putting values into practice, not from a fairly small number of probably MPs and peers who understand how select committees and parliamentary scrutiny work and would like to see Labour MPs able to do their jobs properly so that better legislation results.

PigletWasPoohsFriend, if you agree with the policies of Labour then vote for them! A leader can be changed at any time but surely the idea is to get this awful Tory government out at this general election??

For those of you who comment otherwise on JC, do your homework, realise the media is biased! Whatever JC did in the far distant past bears nothing on the man he is today.

PigletWasPoohsFriend
So in terms of policy and given that we are the 5th richest country in the world, do you think it is right that families are having to resort to food banks to supplement their income, that people will no longer receive free medical health care, that school children are being denied the education they need and schools are being run down, do you think it is right that the elderly are not receiving safe and adequate social care, do you think it is right that the sick and disabled are being denied assistance to exist, do you think it is right that the poorest pay higher taxes than the rich, do you think it is right that the Government turn a blind eye to those multi- national companies avoid paying corporate tax ?

I don't think JC has sensible solutions to these problems, fundamentally. Many of his policies could result in higher unemployment if not done properly - min wage hike, corporation tax hike. Sabre rattling about how multi nationals should be scared of him.

Me, and by the polls white a few other moderates believe the UK is not safe in his hands. It's overly simplistic to say a vote for The tories is a vote for food banks - I could make a reasoned case for saying a vote for JC is a vote for higher unemployment based on the increased min wage, going after multi nats (it's not clear how) and raising corporation taxes.

So actually a vote for labour now could be a 'vote for more people using foodbanks'

*quite a few that should say..

Also my family member very involved with local labour politics is falling out of love with JC's unworkable schemes on housing - I don't think they read the daily mail or the times much, too busy campaigning for labour.

Ultimately I understand why anyone would vote for an idiot with a labour sticker on it, and that's what I feel we've got here. Blair managed to win plenty of elections despite biased media...

Gosh, I really hope those of you JC supporters knocking on doors (which I really hope you are) are not telling people who are having doubts about voting for him that they don't think disabled people should be helped "to exist".