To Think asking Teacher whether DC is showing signs of 11+ potential, I shouldnt be subjected to her personal opionion on the 11+!

[BlowingThroughTheJasmineinMyMi]

I can't believe this or maybe this is standard practise?

At PE asking teacher - at the moment is my child showing potential to sit the 11+, instead of being told - yes , no and comments on that I had to sit and listen to her personal views on the whole 11+

Eventually I was told - 11+ is 128 and your dd recent scores are 130 so YES.

Before I got that information I was told all about her 11+ days at school, the snobbery, how she didn't do it for her dc .

Woot - I mean in class how high can the score go

Well, we have no idea what test your child took...

i dont either woot it was just a normal in house test but she said it was agaisnt national score so I presumed it was standard regular test

Sorry- that sounded really snarky! It wasn't meant to.
There isn't a national score- all grammars have their own tests, out of different scores.
Honestly- look on the 11+ forum to see what the test is like for the school you have near you.
Perhaps it's CATs? They go up to 140 really, but 140 score is top tiny fraction of ability...

YANBU? How cares what her personal opinions are? That's irrelevant IMO and a professional should be able to put them to one side.

Our state school prepares for 11+ and we were told this when we looked round the school by the Head. they identify children from start of yr4 onwards and do some practice sessions with them.

OK Cat rang a bell - perhaps cat, she got 130 in year 4, is that good then or sounds quite low if top is 140...

So....it can be done then toobreathless! How some can and some cant is beyond me.

How is 130/140 low?
Average is 100, so two or three standard deviations above the norm.

Wow, too, I'm amazed that your school does extra practice for the 11+ with kids. Not because I don't think they should, just because I'm amazed they have the time with preparation for SATS. OFSTED is all about the data from SATS results. They aren't interested in 11+ results. And sadly, OFSTED and bad data are sticks to beat schools about the head with.

pineapple those are the 2 Grammars my DD took the 11+ for as well but we live in the other town beginning with H a nearby.
Over here it's really not discussed and I've lost count of the number of parents I've advised on the process personally because the fact that these schools exist aren't that widely known.
There is one school locally with a very good reputation who DOES discuss it in a very low key way I understand but from my experience and that of other parents I know it's almost a dirt secret.
All the kids I know who took the 11+ at the same time as my DD come from a very similar background, which is not what Grammars were originally designed for.
Also, my understanding is that the Grammars in this area are considering putting in measures to allow children on fsm a place with a lower score - I suppose that should even things out but parents still have to have the knowledge and motivation to enter their child for the exam if the school won't get involved at all.

If teachers don't want to comment until year 5/6 when Parents evenings are iften late in the year it doesn't leave you long to make plans.

What plans though? As I said they don't want parents making plans to get their children tutored for the (so called) 11+. Regarding moving house, why should a primary school teacher know whether your house is in the catchment area for a particular secondary school? That is something you can find out for yourself.

Our state school prepares for 11+ and we were told this when we looked round the school by the Head. they identify children from start of yr4 onwards and do some practice sessions with them.

I perhaps depends on the area though, and probably on the type of grammar school. If you are in an area where all children take the test and then go to a grammar/secondary modern then it may work a bit differently to areas where there are only one or two very selective grammar schools, not everyone takes the test and the other schools are comprehensives rather than secondary moderns.

Also, my understanding is that the Grammars in this area are considering putting in measures to allow children on fsm a place with a lower score - I suppose that should even things out but parents still have to have the knowledge and motivation to enter their child for the exam if the school won't get involved at all.

They do that where I live and also let the parents of children on pupil premium know about the exam. The grammar schools also provide a few lessons to familiarise children on pupil premium with the test a month or two beforehand. The primary schools also notify all parents in year 5 of the test dates etc in newsletters.

Therefore, in my area at least it is not true that people don't know about the test and the difference in scores is more likely to be due to the fact that middle class parents are more likely to get tutors for their children.

roomster that wouid seem a fairer way but in this area where the Primary schools refuse to be involved I don't see how it wouid help at all.

What plans though? As I said they don't want parents making plans to get their children tutored for the (so called) 11+

So in my instance the teacher pretty much made her personal feelings known she is without a doubt against the 11+ and she thinks its snobby.

Do you think that opens up a discussion to me about it or closes it down. In my view she has closed me down and left me in the dark.
i have no other option than to at some point get a tutor in to help us, I have no idea which parts of the curriculum esp in Maths will or wont be covered, I have to familiarize DD with the test, look up reading lists and so on.

IE I dont get the angst about parents engaging tutors in the school itself wont help them.

Esp when dc in Prep schools will have been significantly helped in this way.
I am going to help my dc have a shot at it, but what about the dc in her class whose dp are not interested but their dc may really benefit from G school? They wont get near one will they. I am not saying the G school is the be all and end all.

But I do feel its going to be a good environment for one of my DC, the other maybe more like Mum, good in some areas but not all and thats fine too. I do not believe one size fits all in education I want more choice not less.

The grammar schools also provide a few lessons to familiarise children on pupil premium with the test a month or two beforehand

Thats a step in the right direction isn't it. I have also heard just learning some exam technique can make a huge difference. But because some parts of the test may involve Maths not yet taught or gaps in understanding of the level of Maths needed - eg - learn tables - but fast, backwards up and downwards rather than a tick to say - yes she knows her tables....

I agree op. The teacher could simply have told you her English and maths levels and said the test covers contents not taught at school and left her personal views out of it.
Off putting to you at first hurdle.
There is a thread on secondary at the moment comparing 11plus maths to gcse foundation paper. Very much my experience when dc sat 11plus in September there was maths stuff dd had to cover that I did for gcse. She needed to know the yr 6 maths curriculum and beyond by 3rd week of yr 6. So a dc needs some one to teach it - parent/grandparents or tutor. Maybe less of an issue in the past when 'bright' children would do work from class above. Now it is extension of same yr 5 topics.
The 11 plus prep has definitely helped the Sats, even basic exam technique helps. Our grammar area is GL so English comprehension and maths both of which are very similar to Sats and vr.

So in my instance the teacher pretty much made her personal feelings known she is without a doubt against the 11+ and she thinks its snobby.

Without doubt she was rude and opinionated but it seems a bit ridiculous to decide that a whole system does or doesn't function in a particular way based on one person's personal opinion.

IE I dont get the angst about parents engaging tutors in the school itself wont help them.

I'm not criticising you for thinking about employing a tutor. You are just doing what you think is best for your child as most parents do. I just don't think it is unreasonable for grammar schools to not want tutoring for the exams to happen and for primary schools therefore to not encourage or enable it (if that is what they are doing in your area). Why would they want to spend time and resources designing the tests to negate the effect of tutoring and measure actual aptitude (as they do in my area) but at the same time encourage tuition? DCs in prep schools may get help but there isn't much they can do to stop that. In my area the majority will go to independent secondary schools anyway, so it isn't a huge issue.

It's interesting that secondary schools help students move onto their next phase ( whether it be competitive entry like university, or techniques when applying for jobs) yet in primary schools there seems to be a unwillingness to help chikdren secure the best thing for them post primary.

I don't get the angst re tutoring. We all tutor our children, whether it be reading to them, teaching them to talk, or sending them to after school clubs.
I have the skills and knowledge to do stuff that might be considered tutoring - one memorable afternoon was spent with my primary school child measuring the height of trees and using trigonometry. Being negative about tutoring stops families that don't have ability within the family to access these skills.

It's interesting that secondary schools help students move onto their next phase ( whether it be competitive entry like university, or techniques when applying for jobs) yet in primary schools there seems to be a unwillingness to help chikdren secure the best thing for them post primary.

It's hardly the same thing though is it. Universities offer different things, don't have catchment areas and you certainly aren't expected to go to the nearest one. In theory state secondary school are meant to all be offering the same education and children would go to the nearest school or one in the catchment area.

I don't get the angst re tutoring. We all tutor our children, whether it be reading to them, teaching them to talk, or sending them to after school clubs.

There isn't "angst" against tutoring per se. With regard to grammar schools though it is important to recognise that entry isn't a level playing field if those who can afford tutoring are more likely to get in than those can't. Therefore it is hardly surprising that grammar schools don't like it, firstly because it means that they a criticised for being colonised by the middle classes and secondly because it means that they don't necessarily get the most academic pupils. At DDs' grammar school they have to provide quite a lot of extra support for some pupils because they struggle to keep up with the rest of the class, probably because they got in only because of intensive tuition.

See I asked my dd yr 4 teacher about the 11+ as I worried whether she would cope with the additional work if she passed and got into a grammar school, whether she felt with help for the bits they don't cover in school she stood a chance. She said yes and checked with the head for her opinion. I have just arranged a tutor as I want her to be able to recognise the techniques needed. Especially nvr as that is not taught in the school.

Primarys do promote some secondarys though. my dc has been to events at RC comprehensive from yr 3 including a full day in yr 5 and a day at another comprehensive yr 5 both through school. Do any primary schools have similar at their local grammars? They don't around here.

Woot I was told national average was 12 8 not 100 in which case 130 may be low? I AM not laying down law here I am in dark literally just finding out about it all now. I really struggle trying to get gripes with levels and now that's all changing, etc to

gizlot so that's what I wanted to know, why have you been openly given this information and I have been made to feel I am buying into a dreadful snobby system!? I wonder if I should go to the head.

Re entry I recognise that primary schools are hobbling their disadvantaged pupils by making out grammar is a bit dirty word. It's hilarious that with all the angst over tutoring it seems the only way I am going to get non judgemental straight answers about my dd is from a tutor we are going to have pay rather than the school she has been in for 6 years and we are not wealthy by any means our combined income right now is less than 25k. Not disadvantaged but hardly the wealthy middle classes who can enlist help without a second thought!!

State secondaries do not offer the same education as each other. I think that is understood. There are different entry criteria for each one too - it's not as simple as being in the catchment. So you aren't just expected to go to the nearest one.

You could say that it's the parents / student who should look at Uni's without help from school too, but I don't think it's fair to help with one and not the other transfer point.

We have three comps, two single sex schools, all different.