To Think asking Teacher whether DC is showing signs of 11+ potential, I shouldnt be subjected to her personal opionion on the 11+!

[BlowingThroughTheJasmineinMyMi]

I can't believe this or maybe this is standard practise?

At PE asking teacher - at the moment is my child showing potential to sit the 11+, instead of being told - yes , no and comments on that I had to sit and listen to her personal views on the whole 11+

Eventually I was told - 11+ is 128 and your dd recent scores are 130 so YES.

Before I got that information I was told all about her 11+ days at school, the snobbery, how she didn't do it for her dc .

I understand OP. I was frustrated at taking time out of my work day to attend DS's tutorial day, which was 10 mins with his class teacher, and then basically listening to him talk about his own guitar playing or how he didn't learn Italian.
Not uninteresting in itself, but not really the time or the place.

I think you were right to ask the teacher. I think she was unprofessional to go into it more than the required yes/no and the reasons why. All the state primaries round here will tell you in year 4/5 whether your DC are grammar material or not as parents usually start thinking about secondary transfer around that time. Standard practice here nothing out of the ordinary.

At my DD's school you get 5 minutes with their teacher to discuss EVERYTHING at parents eve. And they have a timer, plus a child outside with a timer who knocks when your time is up then every 30s if you're still not out. 5 mins is not long enough in my experience.

If the teacher took up some of MY time with THEIR unrelated opinions / tales / anecdotes I'd be very unimpressed. Unless they gave me extra time in lieu, which buggers up all the appts after me (but if the teacher did this it'd be on her head imo).

In summary, I don't agree with anything directly unrelated to my child being raised!

In my authority, the state school teachers are not allowed to prepare children or comment on their suitability. There aren't universal grammars only SSGSs here, and the authority is very anti-elitism.
You need to assess your child's ability and prepare yourself, or pay for someone to do that, via Prep school or tutoring.
How many authorities are left that have 11+ for everyone?
Can't be that many, surely?

Wow So I need to go back further then and actually find out if our teachers are allowed to comment on it!

Being ready to take the 11+ isn't all about your attainment level though which is why teachers can't really advise unless the prep is part of the school's curriculum.

Many of the private tutors around here actually prefer to take confident, less able students who are hard working/will actually study, and not flap in the test rather than those with the highest marks.

I thought the whole point of grammar schools was to give equal opportunities to academically able children no matter what the household income was - if state schools aren't prepared to put children forward for 11+ and leave it to the private sector, how is that fulfilling that brief?

Many of the private tutors around here actually prefer to take confident, less able students who are hard working/will actually study, and not flap in the test rather than those with the highest marks.

^^ But my dd is extremely hard working I get the impression she is very able as well.

YY Abbey - it seems to me they are being felled at the first hurdle

I don't think YABU.

The trouble is that there are only grammar schools in a few LAs. My county has a couple of super -selectives and that's it. The national curriculum does not incorporate the specific skills tested in the 11 plus as there is not a national grammar programme. Perhaps Grammar entry needs to be related to SATS results or on an assessment that cannot be prepared for.

However, if you were just asking if your child was generally able that should be fairly easy to answer (although maybe a bit awkward if she/he wasn't.)

Unless parents have the know how or money to pay for transfer clubs or private tuition then children are at a disadvantage.

At my dcs primary the teachers have no idea about the 11+ test-it's so different from what's taught in the school so their opinion would be pretty worthless (and I mean that without putting the teachers down iyswim?).

Sure they can tell if your child is doing well in terms of what they're teaching them and compared to their peers and in relation to things like SATS, but again, it doesn't have any bearing on the particular 11+ In our area. A couple of kids in my ds's class would have been in the top 5 of that class but didn't get into grammar school and there were kids in the middle of the class that did get in.

So I can understand a reluctance to comment.

YY Grape to be fair she did say it was a "specific" exam, I guess thats what she meant in her comment.

DP need to know as well if their DC is struggling though.

Yes good point Julia. I think in terms of commenting that's probably what she mean't then.
I have also heard that DC should be getting L5 at some point - if they are going to have a good chance at the exam however.

At the end she said 11+ would be 128 and dd got 130 - which is the sort of idea I want. I think I will have to get her appraised I assume tutors do this but at the same time, they want to make money don't they. Hence I was hoping for a clearer idea from her teacher.

My son is at a super selective grammar. His year 3 teacher advised during the consultation that he was X School material (it is the only grammar for miles around) and I may wish to engage a tutor.

His grammar is not full of priviledged private school boys. There are some, but they absolutely do not dominate. Most of the people I have met there come from state school. And at least half of them could not afford private senior school.

If you think your child would benefit from a grammar school education, get yourself over to this website: www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/advice/. There is really good advice from lots of parents who are doing exactly what you are thinking about.

strix Thanks, she is in Year 4 at the moment, I will look at all this. When do people normally start their dc on this path! I know many of her classmates already attend extra lessons.

Sometimes it is difficult to give an answer about a particular child's suitability, because a child who is top of the class in one school may not be so in another school whose intake may have a higher ability.

I asked my dd's yr5 teacher if she was 11+ possibility. Having not taught that year before, she referred me to the head who said she wished more people would check before entering their child for a test they have no hope of passing.
I think most people work towards the 11+ from year 5 onwards. We did very little work as it was a last minute decision after moving to an area with dire schools.

My dd is 8, started private tutition this year. Then maybe replace with or more likely supplement with the prep her school starts at 9. The tutor we use has done 11+ Prep for 20 years and has a 95% pass rate, but she is also a qualified teacher like nearly all of them here are (retired). Be wary of someone with a 100 percent pass rate as they might 'expel' students they think won't be able to cope. I pay 250/mth for two 1 hr sessions a week.

uppity what sort of things do they cover with their tutor? Do they work on weak areas or get extra tuition in Maths ie taught new stuff?

I think English side of things we can help with ourselves, encourage reading, get 11+ words and so on. But I have heard some Maths in the test is not actually covered by the time they take the test...

They learn how to pass the 11+ with a private tutor.
It really is all about knowing how it all works.

It really depends on the tutor. Some operate hot houses where all they do is tests. Mine covers the material and it's a proper lesson once a week with homework and a test session at the end of the week where she marks homework while the kids do the tests.

She has my dd studying a real variety texts - from Romeo & Juliet to Pride and Prejudice and the Hobbit. I initially didn't think dd would be able to cope with it but she loves it there.

We started beginning year 5 and just did the practice tests. We did not pay for a tutor so it is possible to achieve for those that feel they can't afford private tutoring. But you do need to understand your child's capabilities (real as opposed to aspirational!) and you do need to be able to help them yourself.

Which is fine if you're someone like me but if a bright child has a parent that has language issues or lacks skills to teach them and can't afford tutoring then obviously that child is going to be disadvantaged! Which is where our education system becomes a lottery as some areas are better at dealing with this than others.

Wow Uppity!!

I understand wider issues on why she felt she may not have been able to comment on the test now, as its specific etc. However still no excuse for telling its snobby.

I agree with the head that said she wished more people asked.