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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not even book a trip to the USA because of spent convictions?

294 replies

streetface · 25/04/2017 09:15

We have been planning a large family holiday to USA but one of the party has spent criminal convictions for carrying a weapon, drugs and violence dating back to teens and twenties. In forties now, model citizen, hard working lovely family man but I have a feeling that all of that will be irrelevant and he will be denied entry?

I don't think it is worth taking the risk spending thousands on a holiday to be turfed away last minute. He won't get his money back either will he?

OP posts:
mummymeister · 25/04/2017 12:28

You see, I don't think lots of people do lie. some do, but it must be an incredibly small minority surely. but then some people lie on car insurance forms, or when they have accidents, or when paying tax or claiming benefits or on a whole host of other official forms.

its a pity we couldn't do a poll on it more generally just to see if it is a small number or not. the americans would be pretty pissed off if they thought it was more than a teeny number.

but its the consequences issue isn't it?

as someone upthread said. if the guy is now a law abiding person then he will want to continue being law abiding and apply for the visa which if there is any commonsense in this issue, he will be given and they can all have a lovely family celebration together.

specialsubject · 25/04/2017 12:45

MN ethics would be funny if it weren't so tragic...

He'll be fine as long as he doesn't get caught. I suspect that the border officials are very well trained in body language and are quite good at spotting those who are sweating about being able to get in. Or he may just breeze through.

so - either apply for a visa with the full truth, before booking the holiday. Or chance it, but don't blubber if he is then turned around and banned at his cost. And no, there will be absolutely no refunds.

littlebrownbag · 25/04/2017 12:48

The USA has the right to decide who they want to let in their country, as does every other country including the UK. It is not your right to visit Disneyland, the US government doesn't care whether you want to see Mickey, visit your dying granny, marry in Vegas or make a business presentation. They consider they grant you a privilege to enter the USA, and take a very dim view of anyone found lying to have obtained that privilege. They can and do ban people from ever coming back.

Drugs and violence convictions, even from years ago, will mean, if your friend is honest, that you he has to apply for a B2 visitor's visa. He will probably be rejected due to his convictions, and then wait to see whether he gets a waiver of inadmissibility.

Immigration forums such as British Expats can offer more accurate advice on ESTA and visas.

BenjaminLinus · 25/04/2017 12:51

So there's 3 options.

Apply for a visa and book if he gets one, go elsewhere together if not

Lie on the ESTA, if found out he'll be on the next plane home, never to return, lose lots of money

Lie on the ESTA, everything is OK

I'd be applying for the VISA and then booking accordingly. I don't know when you intend to travel, but the ESTA now asks for voluntary social media details - this thread doesn't look good if it becomes compulsory, does it?

Be careful to use the official ESTA site - it still costs $14 - the poster above who was charged £32 has used a scam site, demand a refund.

And if you're travelling from the UK, your passport only has to be valid for the duration of the trip, not for 6 months.

Original poster
streetface · 25/04/2017 12:52

I think some of you are missing the point re ethics.

It does NOT work by telling the truth, getting the visa and enjoying the holiday.

The embassy has stated, as I said earlier, granting a visa does NOT guarantee entry. A border official can refuse you. Once they see the offences you have owned up to they are likely to refuse you IRRESPECTIVE of owning up.

The only option left to us to get in is finding the least likely means of refusal. Sadly, honesty does not seem to be the best policy. being truthful means he might get the visa and would more than likely be refused anyway.

OP posts:
Instasista · 25/04/2017 12:53

"I'd be applying for the VISA and then booking accordingly. I don't know when you intend to travel, but the ESTA now asks for voluntary social media details - this thread doesn't look good if it becomes compulsory, does it?"

Eh? What does this even mean? You think OP will voluntarily tell immigration that she started a thread on MN anonymously about ANOTHER member of their party despite there being no detail in it whatsoever?

Original poster
streetface · 25/04/2017 12:56

The USA has the right to decide who they want to let in their country, as does every other country including the UK. It is not your right to visit Disneyland, the US government doesn't care whether you want to see Mickey, visit your dying granny, marry in Vegas or make a business presentation. They consider they grant you a privilege to enter the USA, and take a very dim view of anyone found lying to have obtained that privilege. They can and do ban people from ever coming back.

Honestly. What was the point in this post? You think I posted because I think we have RIGHTS and the USA should care? Biscuit

OP posts:
Original poster
streetface · 25/04/2017 12:58

"so - either apply for a visa with the full truth, before booking the holiday. Or chance it, but don't blubber if he is then turned around and banned at his cost. And no, there will be absolutely no refunds."

I'd probably be more pissed off if he had been upfront, paid the holiday after getting a visa and still got booted out to be honest.

OP posts:
Cammysmoma · 25/04/2017 12:58

Lol.

I wanna get into America but just to decrease my chances here is my completely anonymous thread I started on MN 😂

Instasista · 25/04/2017 12:58

The consequences are up to the person in question to consider. Maybe they're happy to risk needing to pay for another flight home. Maybe they're happy to risk losing the holiday money. Maybe they don't care they'll be forever banned from the US (since they can't get in anyway how would that effect them?!)

ImNotDancing · 25/04/2017 12:59

okay but is it disneyLAND or disney World??

Original poster
streetface · 25/04/2017 12:59

Eh? What does this even mean? You think OP will voluntarily tell immigration that she started a thread on MN anonymously about ANOTHER member of their party despite there being no detail in it whatsoever?

Grin I thought this. Since when has Mumsnet been 'my social media' site?

OP posts:
Original poster
streetface · 25/04/2017 13:00

@ I'mNotDancing.

Whatever one is in America. Obvs.

OP posts:
Lennielala · 25/04/2017 13:01

Their both in America, ones in California? And Disney world Florida

BenjaminLinus · 25/04/2017 13:02

This means that at the moment the ESTA form asks for your social media accounts but it's voluntary, not compulsory, and it's relatively new (happened since I got ESTA's in c. December).

The US could make it compulsory so that they can background check ESTA/VISA applicants. It's not the OP that looks bad, it's all those advising to him to lie to Homeland Security.

MadisonAvenue · 25/04/2017 13:02

LOL I already warned the OP to be careful when booking tickets, if she books for Disneyland then she won't be able to use the tickets in Florida!

Cammysmoma · 25/04/2017 13:03

Giving your social media account details when they already have your name dob and everything else wouldn't make a difference. Unless you're writing on you fb I am a criminal blablabla

Instasista · 25/04/2017 13:03

Benjamin- just think about what you've wrote. How can hoemland security force OP to tell them about an anonymous post she made on mumsnet about a 3rd party?

BenjaminLinus · 25/04/2017 13:04

Glad you find it amusing - can you remember a time that everyone found the idea of Trump running for Presidency amusing? And what exactly do you think MN is, if not social media?

Lennielala · 25/04/2017 13:04

I actually need to lie in a dark room after this. Some commments are ridiculous

ImNotDancing · 25/04/2017 13:06

there's two in America, wouldnt have asked otherwise. Obvs.

Instasista · 25/04/2017 13:07

You're not making any sense Benjamin. Why would she need to declare a post on social
Media that's completely anonymous and about someone else?

LagunaBubbles · 25/04/2017 13:07

Whatever one is in America. Obvs

No need for the Obvs bit...both are in America, ones in California which is the original park and the other Florida.

Anatidae · 25/04/2017 13:08

Regardless of the wisdom or morality of lying to US immigration...(which isn't a good idea by the way...)

It would void his travel insurance and you would be insane to travel to the USA without medical/liability travel insurance. If he gets sick, even something minor like a broken leg or a trip to the ER can cost thousands. He could be looking at a bill for hundreds of thousands if it's anything even vaguely serious. He would be crazy to risk it. If he's on your travel insurance then it could invalidate that too and you absolutely must NOT go to the USA without comprehensive medical cover for you and your kids. They don't fuck around there, they stabilise and discharge asap, regardless of the impact on health long term.

Just don't do it. the risks are potentially far too great.

Cammysmoma · 25/04/2017 13:10

Some of you could start an argument in an empty room.

much to all of your annoyance OP's friend will lie on ESTA and will probably have a good time in America. What are you all Gonna do about it? Nothing.

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