To not even book a trip to the USA because of spent convictions?

[streetface]

We have been planning a large family holiday to USA but one of the party has spent criminal convictions for carrying a weapon, drugs and violence dating back to teens and twenties. In forties now, model citizen, hard working lovely family man but I have a feeling that all of that will be irrelevant and he will be denied entry?

I don't think it is worth taking the risk spending thousands on a holiday to be turfed away last minute. He won't get his money back either will he?

The question on the ESTA is open to ambiguity as it specifically asks if you have been arrested or convicted for a crime involving "moral turpitude". DH got community service for a common assault charge years ago. We answered no on the form as Google and the ESTA guidelines suggested common assault was not classed as moral turpitude however to cover ourselves, a solicitor specialising in US immigration wrote a testimony for us stating that she had reviewed his case notes and in her opinion his conviction was not a crime of moral Turpitude, and that she recommended the ESTA was fine. We took the paperwork from her with us to be safe, but we got no questions. I'm glad we did it though as I just had these horrible images flashing through my head that he'd get sent home for lying

On the insurance thing, I have professional experience with a related field, and if you lie to obtain insurance it would be considered fraud (which is defined as deception to obtain a benefit), which is a criminal offence. In my area, even though people had lied on their applications a number of years ago (eg exaggerating earnings) or arguably made "little white lies", it was grounds for investigation by law enforcement.

Yes. Do not make a typo on those forms and accidental give yourself a six instead of five figure salary. Shouting happens. And cross people

What's the point in being honest and rejected?

This attitude is baffling. The law isn't there to make sure people have nice holidays, it's there to make sure entry to the country is monitored and controlled. Saying what's the point in being honest if you're rejected - if you're rejected on your ESTA because of prior form there's something to be rejected for - this attitude is really self centred and takes skirting the law as something that's tickety- boo- as long as you don't get caught. Where does that stop? What's the point in me not robbing your house, I want what you have. What's the point in me not holding up this jewellers at gunpoint, I quite fancy some diamonds...

wizzy above has a right to be pissed off. She (I assume you're a she, sorry if not) is a law abiding honest person who is stopped for the colour of her skin/ethnicity. thats bloody unfair. The USA not letting you into Disney because youve got drugs convictions really isn't.

OPs family member was convicted of some quite serious offences. The USA have absolutely no compulsion at all to let him in. Why should they? His right to a holiday is non existent in the face of the law. The sense of entitlement here is huge.

Op, I'm not saying this to disparage your family member - it's commendable that he's reformed. I'm just uncomfortable with the blasé attitude on here to lying over what are pretty important things. Like an earlier poster said, this isn't a little white 'you look lovely in that' lie. It's morally wrong and potentially very serious. Don't risk it.

You seem really black and white anatidae- I think that has something to do with you being baffled by fairly common behaviour.

Many people don't care what the parameters of US immegration are- in the same way people sneak over borders, or took convoluted routes to avoid Israeli passport stamps etc... some people are just happy to push the parameters imposed by "the system" and some aren't.

It's not always great to just accept whatever governments tell you to be fair. Not in this case, but many others. Progress against opproession has usually come
From someone pushing the parameters. It's not necessarily a bad thing. And it's a very very grey area.

I imagine none of you would care if a foreign criminal lied on the application form for a U.K. Visa then?

I'm perfectly well aware of the shades of grey/nuances of human behaviour, ta. I'm also well aware that one should look at government dictats with a critical eye.

Lying on immigration forms to cover up your violent past is hardly akin to being a social subversive or a freedom fighter.

It's just entirely self centred and entitled. "Yeah I've got past violent and drugs convictions but the law doesn't apply to me. i am special and i don't need to play by the rules. Rules are for the herd. I'm special"

Critical thinking and criticism of government/religious dogma is one thing (and entirely necessary in my book.) lying on immigration forms is just wrong. And a huge risk to take. The law is there and it applies to him. Whether it's right or wrong or somewhere in between isn't the point. The point is that he feels entitled to break it because of his innate sense of special snowflakeness. That doesn't exactly speak of someone who is truly contrite.

You're being overly dramatic, and you certainly can't judge someone's remorsefullness on their willingness to lie on immigration forms.

Hula008- it happens here every day. It's just life

I wouldn't lie on the ESTA, but if you are going to, then go via one of the Irish ports as it's less hassle getting home if you are refused.
Alternatively, you can clear immigration in Nassau as well, so if you get refused you could have a holiday in the Bahamas instead!
I'm fairly certain people must lie on the ESTA questions about whether the purpose of your trip is drug smuggling or terrorism, if that was your aim you're not going to tick yes, are you?
An ESTA is 14 dollars.

sorry i haven't had a chance to read the full thread but OP i have very relevant personal experience of this if you'd like to PM me!

I don't understand why anyone would want to go to the United States for pleasure. Well, I can. It's a beautiful country with many charming people. It's just getting into it that puts me off.

I used to go there on business a lot. US immigration officers are the stupidest, most belligerent people I've ever met. They have a weird view that you want to sneak into their country and live there like a fugitive even though you have a perfectly nice home with family and friends in a safe and civilised country that you'd like to return to.

In about 20 trips I met countless arseholes and two nice ones. I emailed security at LAX to praise one who was incredibly helpful. After I pressed Send, I wondered if I might have got him into trouble for not having the right attitude.

I wonder whether there's an entrance exam for wannabe immigration officers where they show you a map of the world and ask you to point out obscure countries like France, India, Australia and the weird vastness of Scandihoovia.

If you get more than two of them, you're out.

Anyway, I'm not sure I'd lie on an ESTA. I guess that because of the nature of the OP's relation's convictions, he would likely be refused a visa.

I just don't think it's an effective way of keeping America safe for decent people. But it's their country

It's down to how much you're prepared to risk.

Regardless of whether or not you decide to declare his convictions, be prepared for the fact that he may be turned away, visa or no visa. You will need to put aside money for extra flights home, and I presume his family would return with him?

If he lies and they find out, it could be quite nasty - several hours of sitting in immigration and possibly time in a detention centre while a flight home is arranged. American immigration does not mess around. Plus it could have long reaching consequences about his ability to travel to other countries.

Personally I would try to get the visa before paying any money to book anything. But as I said, it's down to how much you're prepared / can afford to risk.

There is no WAY I would be travelling to the USA with previous criminal convictions.

Contact the embassy as others have said.

DO NOT lie on any forms. I repeat DO NOT lie in any forms.

I do know someone who was sent home leaving his family in New York. It was extremely stressful for the family.

Get a visa or go somewhere else.

What lockheart said!

Damnit! I paid too much in my quest for Virgin points!
I wish I'd read this thread first!
Ah well, luckily I only paid a bit more than I should have. They could have said more before I questioned it. (Did it through the virgin Atlantic website...)

I've heard of someone who resisted arrest for a minor offence and they are banned for life from the USA.

Hi my family have the same problem, one member of the family was convicted of indecent assault 17 years ago. The conviction was overturned and quashed as new evidence came to light eventually but as he had already spent 3 weeks in prison he was told to travel to USA he’d need to apply for a visa. He tried 10 years after the conviction and was denied so the family holiday was put off. The whole family are supposed to be going to the USA this summer instead which is including my sister and there children (16 members in total) but he is so worried about wasting money and having to go through the whole process of applying for a visa that he has refused to come along. He has always been a model citizen and never been in trouble with the law since the incident 17 years ago, he has his own company and has worked his whole life since leaving school. He’s been married 19 years and adores my sister and has 3 beautiful kids but due to one fateful accusation from a very jealous person it has left a grey cloud over their family which I fear will never go away. I know my sister feels awful leaving him behind but she has said it’s something she has longed to do with the children and she knows he will never take the risk of going through the visa interviews again 😟

I think it's likely that he would get turned down for an ESTA and will have to apply for a full visa.

I wouldn’t even risk trying to get away with an Esta.
He needs to apply for a visa and as others have probably said the wait time for an appointment can be be months and months