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AIBU?

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Original poster

To not even book a trip to the USA because of spent convictions?

294 replies

streetface · 25/04/2017 09:15

We have been planning a large family holiday to USA but one of the party has spent criminal convictions for carrying a weapon, drugs and violence dating back to teens and twenties. In forties now, model citizen, hard working lovely family man but I have a feeling that all of that will be irrelevant and he will be denied entry?

I don't think it is worth taking the risk spending thousands on a holiday to be turfed away last minute. He won't get his money back either will he?

OP posts:
Instasista · 25/04/2017 15:27

Mummy- we're talking about your shock that people lie on the ESTA, and you've said you are shocked about it. I can't understand why anyone is shocked that some people lie on an official form when they know it won't be checked and the chances of being caught are low.

stopshoutingatyourbrother so in the unlikely chance they took OPs phone and checked her entire history you're also talking about them being able to tell her username and looking through the whole of bloody mumsnet to find this post. C'mon. It's not in the same leagues as an unsecured Facebook account

MyShinyThing · 25/04/2017 15:37

I'm just going to ignore all the arguing here & tell you our recent experience.

DH has a spent caution for possession of cannabis when he was 17.

He travelled to the US when he was in his early 20s (before the esta was brought in I think). When he arrived in the US he was pulled aside at immigration & questioned for an hour about his conviction, which he thought was already spent. According to previous posters they shouldn't have had access to this info, but they did. Eventually they let him through.

He's now mid 30s & we've just come back from the states. He was refused an ESTA on the grounds that he'd been arrested on a drug related charge.

So he applied for a VISA which I think was about £100, also had to supply them with an ACRO (which was blank as the caution was spent). Had to attend a meeting in London to be issued the visa, which he was.

When we arrived in the US he was still pulled in at immigration & we had a nerve wracking wait while he was questioned. But they did let him through & all was fine.

I don't think I'd risk lying but I would get the ball rolling now if he's going to go down the VISA route as it took 2 months for DH from application to issuing. I wouldn't risk booking a holiday without having either an ESTA or VISA because that's what DH did & it was touch & go whether his passport would be returned before we flew!

mummymeister · 25/04/2017 15:49

when they know it won't be checked and the chances of being caught are low

But it is being checked and people are being caught. not everyone obviously.

do you not agree that there are some official forms that you just shouldn't lie on? and the reason that I think that this is one of them is because of the consequences if you are caught out.

The americans aren't known for messing about on immigration and those that tell lies on official forms.

the consequences of getting caught out as others have said from their own experiences - not shocked heresay but real life experiences - is pretty horrible.

I just find it amazing that there are people who wave this lie away because "you wont get caught" "its not really a lie its a risk" and all the other justifications.

why would you do this - just for a holiday.

StopShoutingAtYourBrother · 25/04/2017 15:51

That's right Insta.
Unlikely they'd do it. Unlikely they'd trawl through this thread but they'd have access to all.

AppleMagic · 25/04/2017 15:51

It'll probably take even longer than that MyShiny because the OPs friend probably isn't eligible for a visa. See here. Your duh was allowed one under an exception because it was only one offence and he was under 18.

He'll probably have to apply for a waiver of inadmissibility and that will take much longer (and possibly require legal assistance).

Instasista · 25/04/2017 15:52

Well obviously these people want to go and won't get there any other way so they take their chances. What's the point in being honest and rejected? That seems like a huge waste to me (and lots of people have said he is very likely to be rejected if honest) this was he takes the risk and if he gets away with it he gets his holiday. If he doesn't he comes home.

It's hard to agree there are some forms you shouldn't lie on. I'm not in a position where I need to consider lying or not. When you're constantly rejected for telling the truth it's easy to see why people lie.

Dumbo412 · 25/04/2017 15:54

Katy, no you do need an ESTA as you fly through American airspace to get there. The ESTA is permission for you to fly, not enter the country.

ChristopherWren · 25/04/2017 16:00

I know someone who lied on their ESTA. They had previous drug convictions and were refused entry on arrival in the US. Their very expensive ski holiday was ruined and his girlfriend was distraught when he was made to return home.

I have a cousin who has a previous conviction. She applied for a visa and was refused and was told to leave it at least 3 years before applying again. She applied again about 5 years later, was interviewed and given a visa and has visited the States twice.

Personally, I think it's not worth ruining your holiday over - I would tell the truth, see what happens and if he is refused entry plan to go somewhere else.

Darbs76 · 25/04/2017 16:03

He would need a visa - he won't qualify for ESTA - I wouldn't book until decision made and it can take over 6mths. Many are refused

Magpiemagpie · 25/04/2017 16:05

You don't need a ESTA to go to mexico ffs .There some real crap on this thread
Unless Mr Trump taken over America recently it's visa on arrival as its always been .
And it most certainly was when I left there last week and went a few weeks earlier to cancun
Visa on arrival & in Cancun 800 peso tourist tax when you leave
In fact they give you the immigration card on the plane when your flying

Absy · 25/04/2017 16:06

The statement about not guaranteeing entry is a catch all so that they have the right to turn someone away if they want to (say someone applies for the visa, but lies on the application and this is found out or they're added to a no fly list between the issue of the visa and landing).

Even having a ESTA In place, and being granted entry previously, is not a guarantee you'll get in. We nearly missed our honeymoon because of this - we had travelled on ESTA (and the same passports) a year before. Walked in, absolutely no issue. We then turn up at the airport to fly out on honeymoon (everything booked and paid for), but when we were checking in the airline rep looked at DH's passport and said we couldn't board. His passport was one with a physical (rather than a scanned) photo, and even though it was completely valid and we had gone in with no issues before, Virgin said we couldn't fly, and that they had been fined the previous time for letting him on the plane. Again - perfectly valid and legal passport, and issued before the cut off date for having to have the scanned passport photo. We then had a VERY tense half hour while a local rep of US immigration (with a big moustache) discussed with his colleagues in the US if we could go. Ultimately, we were, but it was fecking stressful and I burst into tears as soon as we boarded.

If you (or your relative) is willing to accept that risk, then fine, but it's not a fun start to a holiday

Dumbo412 · 25/04/2017 16:06

Sorry! No! I am mistaken. It's API that's needed because of American airspace, not ESTA. I was mistaken.

littlebrownbag · 25/04/2017 16:07

@Dumbo412, no ESTA is permission to travel to the USA for citizens of countries that don't need an actual visa to enter. By your logic, if you are not eligible for ESTA, you would need a visa to the USA to be able to fly to Mexico, which is not true.

The USA does reserve the right to check the passengers on planes that fly through their airspace, but they cannot enforce ESTA on airlines/planes that are not landing on USA soil.

LagunaBubbles · 25/04/2017 16:07

You need an esta to get to Mexico

This thread just gets stranger and stranger. Estas are visa waivers for entry into the U.S.A - United States of America. Of which Mexico isnt one. So no you dont need a USA Esta to get into a South American country!

littlebrownbag · 25/04/2017 16:08

sorry, x-post Dumbo.

AppleMagic · 25/04/2017 16:08

Dumbo I'm not sure that's correct.
You need to provide API (advanced passenger information) 72hrs in advance if your flight is travelling through US airspace. That is different to an ESTA.

AppleMagic · 25/04/2017 16:09

Oops another xpost.

Darbs76 · 25/04/2017 16:09

Can't believe people are advising people to lie to gain entry to a country.

Dumbo412 · 25/04/2017 16:13

Magpie, I'd just said I was wrong! On my holiday booking I had it in my head that an ESTA was needed because the flight goes into us airspace. I was wrong which I've admitted, just double checked paperwork which confirms it.

wizzywig · 25/04/2017 16:15

Only on page 3 and cant believe what im reading. Im asian and get stopped every single time i go to america. Every. Time. Ive never been in trouble with the police. Yet im stopped and all these people with criminal records are let in. Im assuming these people arent brown like me?

Dumbo412 · 25/04/2017 16:16

Apple magic, Smile that's what Thomas cook paperwork says, I just made up my own story somewhere along the lines. I'm sure I'd just managed to confuse the details of our Mexico trip and our Florida trip😶

Magpiemagpie · 25/04/2017 16:19

www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/mexico/entry-requirements

There you go it's not even a visa but a tourist card
Trump hasent yet taken over Mexico as far as im aware but if he plans to im sure he will announce it on Twitter

mummymeister · 25/04/2017 16:25

wizzywig that's awful. Cant think of anything else to say other than that. Now that does make me shocked and also saddened.

Magpiemagpie · 25/04/2017 16:25

Apologies Dumbo I didn't see your reply

VimFuego101 · 25/04/2017 16:31

DH inadvertently failed to observe one of the restrictions of the ESTA and should have applied for a visa when he travelled as a tourist. He didn't realize and nobody ever stopped him.

However - it came to light when he applied for a work visa for the US. On those forms, the questions are structured in a way that there is no easy way to lie (not that he would have anyway) and you will have no choice but to detail the fact that you have previously travelled on an ESTA despite the fact you were not permitted to use it. So you may be fine traveling with an ESTA, but it could still bite you later if you were ever to want to apply for a work or marriage visa in the US.