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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not even book a trip to the USA because of spent convictions?

294 replies

streetface · 25/04/2017 09:15

We have been planning a large family holiday to USA but one of the party has spent criminal convictions for carrying a weapon, drugs and violence dating back to teens and twenties. In forties now, model citizen, hard working lovely family man but I have a feeling that all of that will be irrelevant and he will be denied entry?

I don't think it is worth taking the risk spending thousands on a holiday to be turfed away last minute. He won't get his money back either will he?

OP posts:
mummymeister · 25/04/2017 11:54

thanks KERALA1 beginning to think it was just me.

FWIW I don't agree with the USA approach to banning people with spent convictions. But its their country and their rules and if you don't like them then don't go. I can sort of see why they do it and don't go down the "applying common sense" route as suggested by Mulledwine1 because I suppose for some people its not that they are no longer criminals as in this case, just that they haven't been caught for a while.

Cammysmoma · 25/04/2017 11:54

Pretty sure Lennie didn't state it was trivial. She hasn't actually stated wether she agrees with it or not. She is just simply giving her opinion. Seriously some of you need to calm down. You're not on a series of nothing to declare and you're not the immagration police. It's a thread, on the internet. We are all entitled to our opinion. Don't like it? Don't post! Simple

Somerville · 25/04/2017 11:55

Cammysmoma Either truth and honesty is important, or it isn't. If you don't give a stuff whether people tell you the truth or a lie then fine. But I bet you do - in which case you're being hypocritical.

Lalalandfill · 25/04/2017 11:55

Just bear in mind, as others have said, US immigration is a scary experience. It is NOT like going through passport control in the UK. You must be prepared for the fact he may be investigated and sent home, it will be a very unpleasant and expensive experience for him and will cast a shadow over your trip

If you are OK with that go ahead and lie and you will probably get away with it.

In an ideal world he'd apply for a visa in advance but yes, you may well be refused and his card will be marked

OhFuds · 25/04/2017 11:57

I'd never lie on a ESTA, it was scary enough when the sniffer dog stopped at me because I forgot I had a banana skin at the bottom of my DD's rucksack.

Cammysmoma · 25/04/2017 11:58

@somerville

None of your business. If someone I care about lies to me and I find out then I wouldn't be happy

If a stranger lied I wouldn't give a hoot. They mean nothing to me.

But we aren't talking about individuals being lied to here.

Original poster
streetface · 25/04/2017 11:58

@ Kerala1
"Goody two shoes" "holier than thou" for not lying on a government immigration form

You were called a 'holier than thou' for talking about 'those kinds of people' and making sure we all knew you weren't 'one of them'

I am sure you are a peach. Hmm

In the meantime, the conversation arose after the guy mentioned he would need to apply for a visa.

It was me that has been thinking about lying.

In the meantime he raised £6000 for treatment for our nephew to have an operation for cerebral palsy and saved someone's life in his twenties by a very brave decision. He is a loving father, husband, friend and valued community member.

Not one of THOSE people. I bet you're not.

Mind how you go up there dear.

OP posts:
OlennasWimple · 25/04/2017 12:01

Seriously, do not lie on the visa application form!

It's not quite true that there is no sharing of information between immigration authorities: it is possible that they will be able to find out about his criminal record through their background checks.

If he is refused a visa - or worse, refused entry when you all get to Florida - he will need to declare this when he travels elsewhere, which may affect his ability to get entry into lots of other countries (because he isn't just someone with a chequered past, he is now also a recent immigration offender - lying on the application is an offence under immigration law)

Disneyland Paris is awesome, BTW

mummymeister · 25/04/2017 12:01

Instasista - of course I realised that people lied because some people - very tiny minority - lie about a lot of things.

my point was that this isn't about the lie per se but about the consequences of it. Sure, you could lie about a lot of things and see little or no consequences but in this case the consequences could be potentially unpleasant.

I am not naïve, not in the least but would you think it acceptable for someone to lie on say their car insurance information? or does that fall under the category of a lie rather than a risk because its something that could be easily found out?

Lying on an official document or form, lying to a foreign government is very different from telling someone they look great when they don't or saying that your DH has just popped out to the shops when a call comes in he doesn't want to take.

Lennielala · 25/04/2017 12:01

Streetface

Don't explain yourself to these people. Some people don't see an ex criminal as being a good person with the same rights to humanity as them. They are just so far up their own arses to try and not be judgemental of others.

Canshopwillshop · 25/04/2017 12:04

My friend's DH got detained due to previous convictions when he got to the US even though he had an ESTA. He had a hell of a time and was treated like a prisoner. My friend and their young son were left to holiday on their own.

mummymeister · 25/04/2017 12:06

Lennielala don't include me in that. I said upthread that I didn't think that the USA immigration was right. if you did the crime and you did the time then that should be it as far as society is concerned imo. I have employed many ex-offenders over the years and wouldn't hesitate to do the same again.

Not sure I would feel the same way about a liar - who is happy to lie on official documents though.

VerySadInside · 25/04/2017 12:08

Hes a grown up its his decision. You mention thats theres loads of you so its not like youll be left on your own. Everyone ebook and go if he doesn't get in then hell have to be left behind- its his own fault. Don't cancel a massive family celebration for one thug.

MargotsDevil · 25/04/2017 12:10

Some people are so over cautious. I know plenty of people who have flew on an esta when they have been arrested previously and recently!!!

So telling the truth on an official document is over cautious? Confused

This is one of the most unsettling threads I've read on here for a long time. Genuinely shocked that people seem to have no respect for the border requirements of another country; I'm NOT saying that those who have spent convictions are bad people but unfortunately if there is a further consequence to their previous actions then that's their own fault! Lying about it just highlights a disrespect for the law.

Lennielala · 25/04/2017 12:11

@mummy

I did not mention you at all 🙄 if you think I was referring to you then What does that say?

BaggyCheeks · 25/04/2017 12:12

They are just so far up their own arses to try and not be judgemental of others. Hmm

The OP asked if he would get into the US. If he discloses his criminal past, specifically the drug related offences, chances are he won't, though he may be granted a visa if the embassy are satisfied. What happens next is in the hands of the immigration officials at the airport. If he lies and then gets pulled for secondary screening, he's screwed - they don't look kindly on lies. The OP says he's squeaky clean - surely then he won't want to risk lying about a crime of moral turpitude regardless of how long ago it was. I know what I would do - not go to America. I wouldn't have to like it, but I wouldn't be able to happily risk the upset of it going pear shape. Immigration don't give a shit about how much money you've raised for charity, they only care about whether you sold drugs 20 years ago.

Cammysmoma · 25/04/2017 12:15

If you read thread again. OP isn't asking for himself. He is asking on behalf of a friend. And regarding the "up their own arses" comment that was in relation to treating someone who committed a crime over 20 years ago differently to any other person.

NOT anything to do with visas etc

MadisonAvenue · 25/04/2017 12:16

Just one thing, not visa/ESTA related, OP.

If you go, I assume that by saying you want to hire a villa and go to all of the parks then you intend going to Florida, don't book tickets for Disneyland - that's in California. The park in Florida is Disneyworld.

Instasista · 25/04/2017 12:18

One of the most unsettling threads you've read on mumsnet? That's got to be a joke. You realised people lied on these forms surely?

Somerville · 25/04/2017 12:20

OP - my issue isn't whether someone with a criminal conviction should be entitled to travel to the USA. It's how cavalier some of the advice to you has been about encouraging him to commit a further offence by lying. But anyway, the kind of man you describe, who has made big lifestyle changes and expressed significant remorse won't want to commit another offence, I suspect. He's much more likely to want to apply for a visa properly and see if the trip can ben booked with everything legal and correct, don't you think?

To those who think the problem is that the USA is too strict or whatever - many countries don't give visas (or a visa waiver) to people who have certain criminal convictions. Including us in the U.K.!

UnicornMadeOfPinkGlitter · 25/04/2017 12:21

The ESTA must have additional spot checks as I know of people who have travelled and not been stopped, however a friend booked holiday of a lifetime with the family, he had two convictions of possession (cannabis) he decided as it was just over 4 years ago, he would do the ESTA, they arrived and he was pulled over at customs and after x amount of hours refused entry.

Cue lots of crying from children, angry and upset wife who continued the holiday alone while her h has sent back to the UK.

Its just not worth the risk in my eyes. I'd rather go through the proper lines and apply for a full visa and explain about how hes a changed man and the offences were committed a long time ago etc.

Mind you loving how many are telling people to lie and risk losing thousands of pounds and declaring their criminal pasts.

We visit America every year and the customs is quite a scary place to be, there is no humour with the officers. the children hate going through them, especially as we often travel without dh so they are usually questioned about where is your father, why has he not come with you, do you live with him etc.

mummymeister · 25/04/2017 12:21

lennielala it says that you have been having a go at me in other bits of the thread and I just assumed that you would be tarring me with the same brush. Not an unreasonable assumption on a pretty fast moving thread really but hey, think what you want.

LagunaBubbles · 25/04/2017 12:21

MrsTrent Mine was about £32. There's 2 agencies though. Maybe mine was the pricier one

You're misinformed I'm afraid. There arent 2 agencies, there is lots of outside agencies that will charge you for doing the ESTA for you. Whilst there is only one official site and the price hasnt changed.

Lennielala · 25/04/2017 12:23

Disagreeing/debating a topic is not having a go at someone but, okay.

MadisonAvenue · 25/04/2017 12:26

MrsTrent Laguna is correct. There is just one official agency for ESTAs (Dept of Homeland Security) but plenty of online companies who will charge more to put your application through, and some are deliberately misleading and look to be official.