To not even book a trip to the USA because of spent convictions?

[streetface]

We have been planning a large family holiday to USA but one of the party has spent criminal convictions for carrying a weapon, drugs and violence dating back to teens and twenties. In forties now, model citizen, hard working lovely family man but I have a feeling that all of that will be irrelevant and he will be denied entry?

I don't think it is worth taking the risk spending thousands on a holiday to be turfed away last minute. He won't get his money back either will he?

If the US embassy grants him a visa, chances are high he will be let through no problem ...

If he wasn't let through it would be gutting, but far less gutting than a lie being picked up by immigration and the subsequent shitstorm.

You seem to have decided to take your chances, OP but a lot of people are giving you good advice.

If you apply for an ESTA, you might have your application authorised online but arrive to find out that it has not gone through.

I am just back from New York and my 7 year old daughter did not have a valid ESTA on arrival, even though I had printed the online confirmation. I had to go with her into a side room while they went over her details. Luckily for us, their system hadn't logged a hyphen in her name correctly.

I really wouldn't take the risk.

So what happens if you don't have social media or any sort and at present its voluntary
If your smart you would set up a email address specifically for the ESTA that way if they search that email address for anything linked to it nothing will come up
Plus what happens if you don't have Facebook or Twitter I don't have either of it so they wouldn't find out anything about me

The advantage of going via dublin is that if he is refused its only short a flight back to the UK not a 10 hour flight
Hell he could sample the delight of Dublin instead

What ARum said

There have been recent, well publicised cases of visa (and green card) holders refused entry to the US following Trump's "Muslim ban". If further information becomes available about an individual border officials are able to take that into consideration too before granting entry - though that's unlikely to be the case for drugs offenses from 20 years ago.

Top and bottom of it, OP, is that he either applies for a visa and sees what happens; he doesn't go; or you go to Disneyland Paris instead

You have two options; one, lie on your ESTA questions...saying yes will automatically get you declined. Or two, not bother with the ESTA and go straight to your embassy. I would advise you not to lie on an ESTA. They can (and do) gain information about any passenger on that plane and even if they didn't, when you go through immigration they grill you. I've known people be turned away, and I've known people be kept for hours sweating, to finally be let in. Do you want the stress of worrying or do you want to get that visa in your hand?

My husband has a visa because he has a caution (not even a conviction) for common assault (on his brother, when they were 18). He is now in his 40s, never been in trouble since but that is still relevant in their eyes.

My advice is don't go to the US Embassy for advice, because they will tell you to get a visa, because to them it means $$$. You need a subject access form from the police and that will tell you what history he has (you'll need this later for an interview anyway). Customs and Border Protection are nothing to do with the US Embassy and their advice is inaccurate. But, if you go to C&B, they will tell mention Crimes of Moral Turpitude and the person in the OP definitely has convictions related to these. They don't like drugs.

Take your chances by all means, you could say nothing and get away with it. Or, he could be turned away at immigration and sent back on the plane he came in on. On a 15k holiday I wasn't about to take the risk for the sake of getting a visa. In our case though border control huffed and puffed because we didn't need one...they said if it was drugs that would have been a different story.

That said, I've also known plenty to be turned down for a visa at the interview, especially when it's drug related. In that case you can be automatically turned down, see you later, don't ask again...or you could apply for a waiver, and they take MONTHS to come back. So if you decide to go for the visa I would do it pronto.

you cant declare something you don't have obviously. the poster was just making people aware that the rules around estas are tightening up and that there are now additional questions on the form.

So Lennielala bearing in mind you are an insurance broker, do you feel it is Ok for people to lie about pre-existing conditions when they apply for insurance then? or is that a lie because again its easy to find out using UK records as opposed to a risk.

don't you think in your position its a bit hypocritical to say its alright to lie to the American govt on their official forms but not OK to lie to (insert name of company here) . Your company would go ape shit if they knew you were saying this surely.

Streetface

I've sent you a long rambling private message.

Trying to be smart with me won't work love. People lying on their insurance application forms are nothing to do with me. I am a broker, I don't work for an insurance company there's a difference. It's up to the companies to deal with any deception. Not the broker who set the policy up. Also FYI I haven't said that it's okay to lie to the government 😂 please highlight which part I've said "it's okay to lie" although this thread has nothing to do with my job, I've given advice regarding insurance. Lying on a visa isn't related to my place of work in anyway shape or form.

Who gives a shit if people lie. Im not the 'lie police' im not stupid or naive enough to think the world is full of people telling the truth

Agree with those saying nobody other than US citizens is guaranteed entry to the US. Not even permanent residents, never mind visa and ESTA holders.

Everyone going through US immigration has their fingerprints and photograph taken. I think this is once per passport if the whole group is travelling on passports than have been through the system before. If not, you have it done again. It's not a scary procedure - you put your hands on a tablet and then look into a camera.

Pre-clearance is available at Dublin, Shannon and Reykjavik. In general this is less officious and a calmer experience but it is exactly the same process, carried out by US officials.

If it were me, I'd declare all convictions, go for full visa, and then travel via one of these pre-clearance airports for a cheapie trial run alone, or with just another adult.

The new (pre-Trump) ESTA form does ask far more questions, and it does ask about social media, although that part is still voluntary. Their main concern at the moment is terrorism.

I agree with the detailed reasons given above for not lying - a lifetime ban could have serious consequences in the future.

Mummy the ESTA issue has nothing to do with insurance. You're just trying to trap lennielala into saying LYING IS BAD or alternatively paint her as a hypocrite. It's a bit childish

Also love, if I suspect someone is lying to me on the phone when taking out a policy do you honestly think I can say to them "are you lying" I'd lose my job, that's the job of an underwriter. Think before you speak. Childish AF you won't catch me out 😂

Don't lie on forms. It will come back to haunt you. Lying in general does so as well.
Florida is a humid hell of poor food, grotty lodging, large insects, and giant exotic reptiles. It's like Hades without interesting people. Do a few days at EuroDisney.

Also FYI I haven't said that it's okay to lie to the government 😂 please highlight which part I've said "it's okay to lie"

No problem:

If you are OK with that go ahead and lie and you will probably get away with it.

there is obviously a risk to doing that but.. that's exactly what I'd do.

For goodness sake, OP, have an amazing holiday in the states! You'll all be fine.

Some people are so over cautious. I know plenty of people who have flew on an esta when they have been arrested previously and recently!!!

If you're not encouraging OP's friend to lie, then I don't know what else you're doing. And people are linking this to your work in insurance because both situations involve a level of honour-based honesty under the potential threat of investigation, ie you can check 'no convictions' on your ESTA because you want to visit Disney, and I can gently nudge this laptop off the table because I'd a shiny new one from my insurance company, and neither of actions are legal or even advisable but you're not guaranteed to get caught, either. So it's interesting to hear someone whose professional career stresses the importance of full, honest disclosure turn around and say fuck it, everyone's so uptight about lying on visa applications.

Lennielala - when did I become your "love" . How pathetic, to try and belittle someone you don't agree with by using this particular term. and whats with the icon every time you post?

and clearly, there are a lot of people who give a shit if other people lie, as you can see by this thread.

Think before you speak? or what you will come round and duff me up - "love".

I just cant see how its ok to lie on one sort of official form and not on another with the only difference being one you can get caught out more easily than another.

"I can gently nudge this laptop off the table because I'd a shiny new one from my insurance company, and neither of actions are legal or even advisable but you're not guaranteed to get caught, either."

I think this is a really interesting comparison. Whilst an insurance broker is probably unlikely to commit insurance fraud, they will also be well aware that many many people do commit insurance fraud exactly as you describe. It's just an accepted part of the job. Which is why the wide eyed shock that lots of people lie seems strange.

haven't rtft but dh had to apply for a visa for entry into the US, not because of a conviction but because of their policy on 'infectious' diseases. Anyway, despite having a visa he still got pulled aside at customs and we had a pretty scary time waiting, with him being questioned before he was allowed entry! It's such a shame as I love the US and we have friends there but I doubt we'll ever go back due to the stress and worry at customs

"Duff you up" um.. okay. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have no idea what icon you're talking about. Although seriously if you don't agree with the comments and their bothering you that much then don't challenge Them all and ignore them. Extremely confrontational commenting on my job with regards to lying. I didn't once say it was okay to lie. I am just more of a risk taker than you are.

I am not shocked that people lie Instasista, just that they choose to lie on something like an ESTA and that others are encouraging them to do so.

as I said up post there is a wealth of difference between saying you look lovely in that dress to ticking the box for immigration that says no convictions.

the point ARumWithAView makes much better than I have is that yes, lying must be something that happens within the insurance industry (whiplash claims are well documented for this) it just seems odd that someone in this industry which also has a zero tolerance to lying should then advise someone else to lie on an official government form.

my eyes aren't wide and I am not shocked at all.

I didn't once say it was okay to lie. I am just more of a risk taker than you are

Lennielala - read ARumWithAViews post.

The icon is a picture of someone crying with laughter. perhaps you are on your phone and all your posts end with this?

Cammysmomma - I don't have to try and catch Lennie out. he/she has done it themselves. have a look at rums post above or go back and read the full thread.

Its not a risk. Its a lie. A risk is buying a new bit of expensive kit for your business in the hope that you get more business. A risk is buying your holiday currency now in the hope it doesn't go up before you go.

Re social media, yes it is currently voluntary. But be aware us borders have in some well documented cases been demanding that individuals hand over their unlocked phone for analysis or denying entry. I personally suspect it's unlikely to happen but it's a possibility and your entire internet history / apps / life is then in their hands....

Just a small thought, but if OP and her group go ahead with taking this man with them, it's perhaps wise to think of what their attitude will be towards immigration staff if they do prevent him from entering

If that would be understandable disappointment but an appearance (at least outwardly) of "oh well, we tried" then all well and good. If, on the other hand, they'd be inclined to create a massive row, accusing them of "not wanting brown people" and other things which have been said on here, do bear in mind that immigration have the power to entry to bar entry to anyone . In circumstances like that they could very well refuse first, wait for the group to leave and argue later - knowing that their superiors would certainly back them up

May I just add for those who keep saying Mexico, if the ops husband isn't likely to be accepted for an ESTA then he's not going to Mexico either.

You need an esta to get to Mexico.

Dumbo - i know the wall isn't yet in place but you're mistaking Mexico for New Mexico. Mexico is an entirely seperately country to the USA and is not a party to any US visa waiver schemes. ESTA is issued by the US government who care about people entering its borders, not entering the borders of neighbouring countries. THe USA has no dominion over Mexico (or canada). UK citizens would only need an ESTA (or indeed any kind of visa) if they were stopping off in the USA en route to mexico and felt the need to clear customs