Devastated but should I be?

[Solarpinlight]

Very long story shortened or I'd write a book.

My father called me and my sister up today, said he needed to talk to us. Our mother passed away suddenly last December, we are still struggling with it and my sister and I miss her terribly. My father started seeing a woman not long after, we have met her a few times but we've gathered she's possessive of my dad and he's started to be less and less available. My sister and I have found this difficult but understand he's an adult and as long as she's not being forced to be our mother then even though I don't really like it we've accepted it for peace all round.
Today father tells us that his girlfriend wants to move in with him into his house. She is planning to give her daughter her house and her son a house she owns elsewhere. Part of the 'deal' of her moving in with my dad is that she will give him half the value of his house in cash if she can be then signed over half his house, in effect buying half. He will then spend this money on much needed modernisation. My father wasn't looking for our blessing, it seems he's doing it whether we like it or not. His attitude is that we are all settled and working so don't need his money. My sister and I came away she'll shocked and it's only now sinking in. Our mother would not have wanted this at all. She'd be devastated to think we were losing our family home. His GF is 12 years younger than him, he's 70 so once it's all sorted out if he dies first then she'll have the house.
I've come home and spent an hour on the phone to my sister as she's as gutted as I am. Where on earth do we go from here, he's adamant the GF is his future and we are not to interfere. I feel sick, I know he's entitled to his life but why do this to us? He's not the man I thought he was and I'm reeling.

Can you inject casually into a conversation with him that it's said that it's a bad idea to make major decisions within two years of a bereavement? It's true, btw, best to let the dust settle a while first, learn to recognise the 'new' world you inhabit and then go on; perhaps he won't be giving of his best to his new gf, cheating her in a way?

Many people jump headlong into new relationships or sell up and move 100 miles away after a major bereavement and regret it deeply when they've gone on a few years. They're seeking a substitute for what they've lost and the new home/friend/whatever turns out not to be what they thought (the lost loved one) but they've gone too far and can't wriggle out.

The fact he's so ready to have another relationship indicates that he was very happy with your mum - small comfort, I know.

Also for those saying op shouldnt expect inheritance no you shouldnt as the parents may need to spend it on care or enjoying the final years of their life but neither should you expect that your family home should go to a complete stranger and their kids

Exactly.
You would have to be a cold, hard hearted person to not be bothered that your own chidren could miss out in faviur of a stranger^s children.

OP, this is a horrible situation and I can understand your heartache. I would be devastated. This house was your mum's house too, she wouldn't have wanted this, I'm sure.

I think your father is misguided to be making such a huge life changing decision so soon after your mum's death as he may regret it further down the line. I do think this woman might be fleecing him as she's essentially getting back the money she's giving your dad - or at least half of it - if it's being going to be spent on improvements that she will benefit from for years to come. I wonder how she got to own two other houses - through her own hard work or some other way? If she truly loves your dad, why is she rushing him into this?

But there's nothing you can do except grit your teeth and get on with things. Accept that this is what he wants to do as it sounds as though if you try to advise him, he'll just shut you out. I'm sending you a big virtual hug and

Love how she's made sure her kids are sorted out though, but apparently you and your sister don't warrant the same treatment. That's what would piss me off, you've been respectful about his relationship the least she could do is return the favour and make sure his kids are sorted.

That's the only thing I can see that's wrong, ultimately it's his money his house and he can do what he likes. I suppose the only thing you can do is try and make sure his finances are secure, ask to be involved in helping him that way you and your sister will know what's going on.

Is there anybody on the thread who has had this sort of conversation with a parent successfully? This situation is very common - has anybody navigated it with a good outcome? We failed miserably when it happened to us - and we never attempted the inheritance conversation.

@Timeforteaplease Not here unfortunately. Massive source of anguish and heartache on a daily basis still.

Being the money grabbing cow that I am 😄
I would probably encourage my father to tell her that He was planning on leaving his half of the house to my kids with a life interest for her
This is ultimately fair as she get to stay in the house till she dies and get 50 percent to leave to her kids

Anything else means she is a money grabbing bitch as she isn't losing out anywhere

This would be a simple test to see if she is really that interested in the Merry Widow when she realise she is only going to get 50 percent of the house and not the full 100 percent

OP Your going to fall out with him/ less contact while he is with this woman so you have very little to lose ( IMO) if it takes some straight talking to discover what your father is really like then it's probably for the best .

I agree with Magpiemagpie.

Rather than inheritance worries, I'd be more concerned if the relationship didn't work out a few years down the line and he was having to sell up and split the value of his house with the gf. Could you perhaps frame it as concern about what may well end up a passionate & intense but rebound relationship? I'd be far more worried about having to rehome a doubly grieving 70something than a losing a few quid or the place of some memories from the family home.

timeforteaplease
I did it with my parents before this could happen as my parent have been ill in the last year and I could 100 percent see my dad doing this
Encouraged my parents to split th tennancy to tennants in common
Mirror wills with leaving 50 percent to my son & my sister
With a life interest to the surviving spouse
It's actually a legal way as well to protect at least 50 percent of the house should one of them die and the other need care home fees from this as they only own 50 percent of the house which can't be touched for care home fees as they only owe 50 percent
To do this cost around £350 inc wills / separation of tennancy with a solicitor

It's worth putting it to them in this way such as protecting the house or at least part of it ftom care home fees
They might take this better rather than leave it all to me 😄

"Is there anybody on the thread who has had this sort of conversation with a parent successfully? This situation is very common - has anybody navigated it with a good outcome? "

I don't want to post details as it might be outing but yes my DH and his siblings have had this type of situation and managed to talk openly with FIL. Without saying too much, a woman who has been declared bankrupt has become ever so close to FIL even before MIL's was gone.

In fact she was a friend to the both. As soon as MIL was gone she moved in with FIL into the family home. FIL has assets she is destitute.

After careful, loving respectful and open conversations this woman has now her own apartment paid for by the council.

Oh and this other woman is no contact with her daughters, tried to position herself as our and in law's children's new grandmother literally days after we lost MIL. She seems extremely needy and it wasn't pretty to watch how she swooned around FIL and our very young dc.

My dh hates her guts and he is the most peace loving easy going guy ever who simply gets on with everyone. BTW FIL is not dating this woman but they are friends though she clearly wants more.

In short our approach where we talked in a non pushy but clear and supportive way clarified the situation. We also know that FIL's will only includes his children. As it should be. I believe that at age 60 or 70 people ought to be self sufficient and not hope to benefit from other people's life works which will inevitably have involved massive finical and emotional sacrifices for the family to build. We would not at all be against FIL finding somebody new once he has had time to grieve and enjoy his last decades with another artier but they need to be equals, not sponging of each other.

timeforteaplease - I had conversations with DM and Dad before she died about this and understood that it was all sorted. It wasn't and I wish that I had gone into the detail then but I trusted them both and didn't anticipate Dad basically chucking all of our family loyalties and values out of the window.

I have had discussions with him since her death and it has become easier since then although my DSis and I have to be very careful in terms of how we couch it. We also have relatively few opportunities to get him on his own and of course NW, has a lot more opportunity to work on him.

Ultimately, the issue that really gets through to him is that he and DM would have wanted the grandchildren to benefit, that it was DM family property rather than property accrued during the marriage to DM. He can see he wants to leave it to his grandchildren and not hers but we do raise it obliquely quite frequently (I.e the cost of university fees, property costs for young people, the fact that DN has autism and is unlikely to be self sufficient etc and how DM would have been so glad that their futures would be made better/easier by it) to try to reinforce the point.

MissBeehiving - has your DF listened and made a will?

Solarpinlight I am so sad for you and you must be so shocked. I have also experienced this behaviour. I am glad you have your sister and can support each other, though that will be hard at the moment.

I think you should urge your dad to be cautious so he doesn't lose his house to her and her family - not talk just in inheritance terms - he is only 70 and may have many years left. I think you should suggest she buy an investment property and they use the rent to make improvements on his house - if it doesn't work out then she has somewhere to go. You can say that you don't think this is what your mum would have wanted with what was essentially her half of the house, although she would have wanted him to be happy, she would have wanted him to be secure.

I don't think this is grabby - I have a neighbour being exploited in this way and it breaks my heart, even though I would never benefit in any way from any inheritance arrangements. It is possible to see unfairness and nice people being walked over and find it upsetting, even more so when your own grief is involved. I know my neighbours late husband would have been heartbroken to see his children disinherited in favour of those of a rebound fling and his wife in a home with her new, younger husband living it up in the house he had paid for - these things are morally wrong - much, much more wrong than expecting an inheritance.

I actually think that the way mortgages are set up should be changed to tennant in common with a life interest to the other person or something like this if possibke as default position rather than joint tennants as the default option

It should be that in with buying a house a making a will should be included as part of the solicitors fees i mean what's £350 when your paying hundreds of thousands of pounds out .

Many older people don't realise that what's happening to the OP is pretty common so trust there spouse to leave it to the kids
But as we see it so often isn't the case
Younger people who have been through it tend to know because it's hapoened to them or friends

It would stop shit like this happening as the people would have to actually cut out there kids/ make a will not leaving anything to them which is fine if they don't want to
rather than relying on the good will of there spouse and the influence of a new partner to leave stuff to there children

It's very hard to see the message and feelings change from 'this is our home, we are a group with our shared history' to 'this is my house, my life, nothing to do with you' as if you're a stranger or nothing more than a hang over from a relationship that's no longer relevant. It's very painful, it's hugely rejecting. It writes you out of the emotional history and bonds your whole life has been built on.

Sorry the above was a quote from a pp. I so agree with it. I felt that after my mother died my dad just made us orphans. He just wiped out our family and prioritised what he wanted.

Yes - he has and he has also transferred some assets which helps with IHT because he is well over the joint threshold. A will can obviously be changed at anytime though and he has continually lied about stuff since DM died so the lifetime transfers are more certain. We will also buy some of assets to give him capital just to keep them in the family and have also offered to provide a guaranteed income for him, so that he can make the lifetime transfers. For us it's about keeping property in the family that has been in it for 400 years - we may have to take debt onto do that.

I lost my husband 2 months ago and I couldn't in a million years imagine sharing my home and finances that my husband I created together for our family , with someone else so soon. My husband wanted to leave what he had worked for , to me and our children and no matter what my feelings to a new partner would be i would be racked with guilt at jeopardising the inheritance that my husband wanted my children to have . My children are much younger and still at school but I don't think that would have made any difference to how my husband would have felt and I do think your dad has been incredibly insensitive. I get the point that time isn't on his side and he deserves to find a partner to care for him and for him not to be lonely, but really, if this woman is willing to do this with a man she has been in a relationship for 3 months , who has recently been bereaved and who has not considered the feelings of his 2 adult children who have just lost their mum, well words fail me really

Sorry to hear about your husband @Teawaster

I think TotallyEclipsed above has the right idea on how to bring this up.

I think you could have a conversation with him that just focuses on how worried you are if the relationship doesn't work out, he could end up homeless. If they split up quite soon after she has bought half, the house will be in mid-building works and it will be a horrible legal and financial mess. Even if the house is in pristine order after the building works it will still be a difficult situation. And of course, the house will have to be sold. Has he thought of that? And where would he go? He'd probably only be able to afford a house that would be worth half of his current house. So he might have to move to a cheaper area. Has he thought about that?

Imagine that he has no children and you are looking out for his interests only.

Of course then you could say "Sheila has the right idea. She had made sure that her own houses stay in the family so she can always go back there if it doesn't work out. You don't have a safety net, she does".

If he is receptive to any of that then you could say that if everything works out great with Sheila and he lives with her until he dies, did he intend that Sheila's children would each have a house from Sheila and then when he and Sheila die, they will inherit this one also? So Sheila's children get 3 houses and his children would get none.

Does your father have any close friends or family that you could speak to? Because if they have his best interests at heart, they will have their own concerns also.

Yes I agree that a much better angle to approach it with is the concern for him - leaving the inheritance out of it totally.

"We support you dad and wish you all the happiness in the world but we are concerned that you are making yourself vulnerable in the future. It's only been three months. What happens if you tie your finances up so quickly and then you find that you grow apart or the rose tinted spectacles come off over time as they often do, and then you I'll have to sell the house if you split up? Why not wait a bit and see how things go? Would you have been happy if I'd put myself in such a vulnerable position after only 3 months of meeting a new guy? What would your advice to me have been? It's been 3 months. You are still grieving for mum. Please just live together if you want but please give yourself options in the event they either of you change your mind about the relationship in the future - even if you think that it won't happen, at least give yourself options"
Then perhaps look at suggesting she buys a buy to let and they do up the house with that income.

I also wonder how she got the other two houses which men did she fleece

You could even suggest that she moves in (she's going to anyway) but rather than buy half the house, she could pay a reasonable market rent and that would then fund the building works that they want.

Then if they do split, she just goes back to her place(s) and he retains his own house.