To think that some left-wing supporters are just so NASTY

[cathf]

This is based on posts I have read on here and a couple of very vocal left-wing friends I have on facebook.
I have truly never read a Conservative supporter personally attacking Labour in the same way.
I find it astonishing and if I am honest, a bit childish.
Recent examples include a website pulling Teresa May's living room apart and costing out every single thing in it, to a chorus of comments along the lines of how can she sleep at night when children are hungry and she has a £25 candle.
Every time the subject is raised on here, there is a long thread of hysterical comments about how nasty the Tories are. Yes, Tory supporters state their case and answer back, but they seem to be able to do it in a more restrained, mature manner than outraged Labour screamers.
There seems to be a lot of personal bile aimed at Teresa May, which I am at a loss to understand - just what has she done that is so terrible?
She is pushing through Brexit, but that was what the country voted for. Is she supposed to go against the country's wishes?
All of Labour's policies look very lovely, but none have any substance at all. My friend recently stated on Facebook she was supporting Jeremy Corbyn because he wanted peace not war. And? How is he going to implement that then? It reminds me of the 1980s T-shirts stating War is Stupid. Lots of nice words, but to implementation strategies.
It amazes me that supposedly intelligent people seem to be so brainwashed by this nonsense and think that flinging mud is an appopriate way to behave.
Is it just me?

BNP, EDL, NF, Britain First et

The day that any Conservative goes on to there raillies or the BNP, EDL, Britain first start publicly backing/campaigning and everything else momentum are doing then you might have a point.

As it is, your just trying to straw man.

I live in EDL heartland. Most of the EDL supporters are busily voting UKIP at the moment.

However, I know of plenty who despise Labour and , in my constituency, will certainly vote for out very right wing MP and they actively espouse EDL etc on Facebook , retweet Tommy Robinson incessantly and go on their rallies/ marches/ 'protests'

I STILL don't know who Momentum is/ are but I do know who EDL are and, around here, they really aren't regarded as being fringe lunatics.

You can't win an argument just by saying you don't know any conservatives who espouse those views. And by the same token seem to suggest all left wingers/ Labour voters espouse unpalatable views.

Yeah - and old Nicola is doing a cracking job of the Scottish economy

I would say your average labour voter is less well educated than your average Tory voter.
No question.

Apple - I think you accidentally made a point for Scottish independence.

My point was that, if Scotland were independent like Finland it could clearly make proper independent decisions - being of the same size as Finland...

Lost on you, I guess.

Surfer that is a fantastically ridiculous thing to say - in so many many ways.

London has the highest university educated population in the UK and I predominantly Labour, for example.

But , it's probably just as well you aren't a Tory MP unless you are Nadine Dorries on the sly as the very people they are trying to court are the 'less well off/less well educated' in areas such as the Lincolnshire coast and Blackpool.

In fact, surveys have been done - and it does depend what you mean by 'well educated' but the LibDem and Greens get the highest proportion of highly educated voters.

I don't think they are inherently nasty but they are angry and passionate and so it sometimes gets heated for them. How would you feel if everything you cared about, worked for and relied on was being pulled down and destroyed be people who could not care less if you lived or died, you would be angry to and incredulous that so many people continued to vote in a way that damages them and the majority of people in the country!

But Scotland isn't Finland. It's divided between people who want independence and people who don't. And it has no history of self governance like Finland.

How is it going to make "proper independent decisions" on that basis? By hoping oil prices don't keep crashing?!

I know it isn't Apple (but you need to read up on both your Scottish and your Finnsih history!)

I am not keen on engaging in another debate about Scotland. I posted because you suggested 5million wasn't very many people. People are actually rather patronising about Finland, as if it is microscopic. It has actually a relatively sizeable population.

And it is convenient that everyone in education etc etc. says how amazing it is. And then never adopts or copies anything it does.

Ha, you have no idea what I know about either country (in fact I've spent a lot of time in Finland and had Finnish house mates for a few years in London). But you probably know what they say about assumptions...!

The point is not that 5m is small. The point is that it IS small compared to the uk. So what works well for 5m probably doesn't translate smoothly to 65m - and hasn't in practice, even when the population of the uk was far smaller than that (now is the winter of our discontent).

You can't win an argument just by saying you don't know any conservatives who espouse those views. And by the same token seem to suggest all left wingers/ Labour voters espouse unpalatable views.

I'm not the one making broad brush statements as you seem to suggest, I was responding to "what is wrong with momentum", to then have some straw man argument of "what about the BNP/EDL??"

I even caveat most of posts with Momentum and the most vocal Corbyn supporters so I'm failing to see how you are trying to equate where I am applying it across the board, there are many, many left wing voters who do not like corbyn and momentum.

Momentum are a political organisation that was specifically set up to show "grass routes" support for Corbyn. BNP/EDL and Britain First are nothing of the sort and do not publically back any particular party.

Indeed Just but you said that you didn't know/ don't believe any conservatives / Tory voters go to EDL marches unless I read you wrong. They do.

BNP do publicly back a party. Given they are one...

A 19 year old, card carrying member of the Tory Party here is an active EDL voice.

I have now read up on momentum. I can see they have typical infighting issues and that some fo their grassroots members have expressed dubious views (but by no means all)

I can't see the similarity in extremities between Momentum / Corbyn and, say, the BNP. And , as I said, the BNP don't need to ask their members to join a party because they are one. And so extreme that you could get into trouble in some profession for holding membership. the same could hardly be said of Momentum!

But, anyway, that matters not one hoot to most voters.

I am glad you know Finnish people and lived in Finland , in which case you will know something of its tumultuous history and hard fought journey to full independence.

Surely , economy of scale' applies to all ideas, doctrines and beliefs : or is it just genuinely socialist ones?

I am not saying it was successful, or even ethical and moral, but communism sure went for economy of scale ! And still does in China.

But just not going to keep debating that one as I do agree that ;what about' arguments can be spurious and never ending.

You don't know much about Finland if you don't realise how divided the country was when it became independent that led to a brutal civil war and that strict divide was still very visable just a couple of decades ago (in the terms of different sports clubs and social clubs for workers and owners/bosses even for their kids)

I would say your average labour voter is less well educated than your average Tory voter. No question.

As a Tory voter I would very much dispute that. And it's Labour's big problem these days. Labour is no longer the party that represents the ordinary person, the average working person, the man in the pub or the woman in the supermarket.

Labour these days is very much a movement of the middle class university educated liberal elite. It's much more likely to find it's spiritual home in a Student's Union than a Working Men's Club. And they have a habit of telling the working classes what they think they should want (normally benefits) rather than listening to what they actually want.

Bill , I get your point but the 'working classes' , too, can be well educated !

Labour these days is very much a movement of the middle class university educated liberal elite

Yes, that's true, for parts of London anyway - & of course many traditional labour voters have switched to UKIP. But Labour are still strong in the Midlands, Blackpool, Burnley, Leeds, & areas like that. These are not sophisticated, hipster areas by any stretch of the imagination.
They're areas full of the lower working class.

Jeremy Corbyn doing a sterling job as ever....
The final PMQs before the GE & how is he playing it??

"Maureen from Milton Keynes is concerned about...."

Yet again dodged a direct chance to stake his ground re UK defence, and not pushing why his party under his leadership is the best choice from the country.

He is nothing more than a lobbyist & the equivalent to a student activist.

They need Hilary Benn as their leader but I don't think he's interested.

surfer OMG - now it's lower working class.

There's a Harvey Nicks in Leeds. And two (or more) universities.

Love to know what you mean by areas like that and , indeed, where you are from doubt it's anywhere near the lower working classes

Copper what did Maureen from MK want to know??

I need to know these things!

in case it relates to LoD

It was nothing to do with LoD unfortunately - that would have been a much more worthwhile point of interest!