To think that some left-wing supporters are just so NASTY

[cathf]

This is based on posts I have read on here and a couple of very vocal left-wing friends I have on facebook.
I have truly never read a Conservative supporter personally attacking Labour in the same way.
I find it astonishing and if I am honest, a bit childish.
Recent examples include a website pulling Teresa May's living room apart and costing out every single thing in it, to a chorus of comments along the lines of how can she sleep at night when children are hungry and she has a £25 candle.
Every time the subject is raised on here, there is a long thread of hysterical comments about how nasty the Tories are. Yes, Tory supporters state their case and answer back, but they seem to be able to do it in a more restrained, mature manner than outraged Labour screamers.
There seems to be a lot of personal bile aimed at Teresa May, which I am at a loss to understand - just what has she done that is so terrible?
She is pushing through Brexit, but that was what the country voted for. Is she supposed to go against the country's wishes?
All of Labour's policies look very lovely, but none have any substance at all. My friend recently stated on Facebook she was supporting Jeremy Corbyn because he wanted peace not war. And? How is he going to implement that then? It reminds me of the 1980s T-shirts stating War is Stupid. Lots of nice words, but to implementation strategies.
It amazes me that supposedly intelligent people seem to be so brainwashed by this nonsense and think that flinging mud is an appopriate way to behave.
Is it just me?

Well, yeah... but you get more in some parties.

True, it goes pretty much all the way to the shadow cabinet within labour

I used to be very liberal but - sorry - I think Blair was worse than Thatcher in terms of the damage done. That might just be because I was very young when thatcher was in power whereas I was fifteen in 1997 and retrospectively i do think things went very, very wrong.

And this is why party's should stand on their own merits and not keep criticising the opposition for what they did last time they were in power. I think that lost the Conservatives a lot of votes in 97 - I was 20 in 97, my first time voting in a general election. No point telling me how bad Labour were in the 70s I didn't remember it, all I knew was how bad the Tories had been in the 80s and 90s.

And to me things like the introduction of the minimum wage mean Blair can't be worse than Thatcher. I knew people on a £1 an hour or less before the NMW was brought in. Things where I grew up did get better after 97 and that was in one of the poorest areas in the UK.

Being liberal doesn't mean we have to stand back and let people suffer abuse. Freedom of speech doesn't give you a right to harass and bully.

There are winners and losers for every single policy that is made.

Most people vote for what is best for them and theirs

Understanding as far as you can the issues is really important but time consuming and difficult. Impossible for anyone to really get it.

We don't like saying we don't understand. Better to pick on a single policy and say how evil it is, (left or right) and by extension that everyone who supported it is evil.

One step further and we have personal attacks - and sooner or later civil war.

Yes I think on MN the Left tend to be slightly more vocal but there are more than enough right - leaning sites where the opposite is true.

As a Labour party voter my analogy would be that everyone put work into the house party and shared in the fun, and those that couldn't work due to sickness or other disability were still invited and looked after.

You're probably right Badknee; I think you probably get a very skewed perception on MN, as the left on here can be very aggressive and opinionated, and are more likely than any other party supporter to direct personal and offensive comments at people who they disagree with.

CopperRose

Your meme is very funny and everything... but it's also a bit... wrong.

Being liberal obviously doesn't mean you tolerate all opinions.

Feel like I'm falling into a trap by engaging with this, as it's so obvious, and I must have missed a layer of meaning...

Some opinions and some actions are totally unacceptable. That's why some people are so outraged by the Tories.

To make an anaology, a conservative's house party would be considered a success if two people at the party had a nice time, but everyone else had a awful time.

Actually personally I feel at the moment a Labour Party party would be one where wealthy attendees had a good time in a VIP with all the trimmings and doled out two sausage roll each to their favoured groups outside (like benefit claimants, public sector workers and migrants). They wouldn't even bother in inviting anybody else to the party because they hold them in such contempt.

Oh dear. That's poor.

astonishing and if I am honest, a bit childish.

Yes Merchant; I agree, some opinions and some actions are totally unacceptable. And that's why Corbyn will never win a General Election.

*Your meme is very funny and everything... but it's also a bit... wrong.

Being liberal obviously doesn't mean you tolerate all opinions.

Feel like I'm falling into a trap by engaging with this, as it's so obvious, and I must have missed a layer of meaning...

Some opinions and some actions are totally unacceptable. That's why some people are so outraged by the Tories.*

I mean this nicely (honest!) but you did miss the meaning of the meme Merchant.

I agree with you, some opinions and actions are totally unacceptable and I never stand back or ignore if I genuinely perceive that someone/a group are being demonised, harassed or bullied.

What I don't have time for (which the meme is about) is the liberal double standards, whereby someone loudly preaches tolerance, then they turn into rabid mud slingers just because someone else has a differing opinion to what they dictate as the 'right' opinion to have.

It happens a lot on all sides (Tory/left wing & Brexit/Remain being typical mn examples).

You might not agree with Corbyn's opinions - and perhaps he is living in Cloud Cuckoo Land - but does he actually espouse any policy that is, by any vaguely objective index, abhorrent, and does he have any appalling actions to his name - the sort of actions that lead the disabled or the mentally ill to suicide, say?

Nasty is as nasty does...

YANBU at all OP.

I am not ideologically aligned to any particular party....I am the classic 'floating voter' who decides how to cast my vote on the basis of the arguments presented to me.

During the last general election labour supporters displaying the behaviour that you describe pushed me towards voting conservative. Not all labour supporters I hasten to add, but there is a vocal minority who I believe are actually damaging the left's chances by displaying such vitriol. State your case - fine - I want to hear the arguments to help me make my decision. But I was called thick, bigoted etc etc. Only by left supporters, and not by right wingers. It was very striking and frankly it pissed me off and influenced my voting decision.

I'm with you OP. Left wing "mainstream" rhetoric seems to be much more aggressive than Tory equivalent. Yes I am a Tory and I know that it's not everyone's cup of tea. However I don't ridicule and belittle labour supporters.

(That was to livelove)

"However I don't ridicule and belittle labour supporters."

You might not, but there is plenty of it about.

As I said I think both sides are very guilty of bias here.

Thanks, CopperRose for your reply.

I don't think I did misunderstand then... I get that the meme is pointing out the perceived 'double standard' - but my point that it's not a double standard, because no liberal would claim to tolerate 'all opinions' in the first place...?

You've never seen anyone being nasty about left wingers? I take it you missed those incredibly offensive comments when Michael Foot died, to say nothing of the vitriol about Ed Miliband's father?

Theresa May's most supportive newspaper published a headline the other day saying "Crush the saboteurs". Was that restrained and mature, OP?

Does Corbyn have any appalling actions to his name?

• divorcing his wife because he disagreed with the schooling option she chose for her children

• when in a relationship with Diane Abbott, he took his chums round to his bedsit knowing a naked Diane was in bed still, just so he could show off his liberal credentials ('check me, sleeping with a black woman')

• cozying up to terrorists

• making jokes about the Brighton bombing (soecifically: "what do you call 4 dead Tories? A start" and "try riding your bike now Norman")

That's just off the top of my head by the way.

I think the terms left and right have changed drastically and not really relevant any more, The problem is that the "left" as evident within this thread equate voting as some kind of moral compass.

The main issue is that all political discussions turn into a massive shit show and its the most vocal from either side willing to throw the shit, the internet has made these echo chambers possible, where that anyone who is apparently new to politics and asks a genuine question the thread will pretty much turn any neutral off within the first page.

However with my centre right head on (that's extreme alt-right thinking according to the modern day MN definition apparently)They cannot wait to tell you how wrong you are and that you just don't understand and should be more "educated", as evident again within this thread, Anecdotal evidence is fine from anyone on the left, from the alternate and its just a "right wing media" conspiracy, whilst some prevalent poster will ironically post links to the canary etc which then initiates the echo chamber effect.

When you get into an echo chamber things generally become just preaching to the converted and when someone dares to put there head above the parapet they are rounded on.

Although the last GE has made political discussion on MN a bit more balanced, it prided itself of being generally "left wing", the last GE and brexit showed that a lot of people on the left don't really champion the working class or "undereducated" as they profess, it's more vote as I say.

The problem is left wingers don't practice what they preach.

"The problem is left wingers don't practice what they preach."

Neither do the right, the difference is that when the left wing are in power things tend to get better for most people.

Does Corbyn have any appalling actions to his name?

- divorcing his wife because he disagreed with the schooling option she chose for her children

- when in a relationship with Diane Abbott, he took his chums round to his bedsit knowing a naked Diane was in bed still, just so he could show off his liberal credentials ('check me, sleeping with a black woman')

- cozying up to terrorists

- making jokes about the Brighton bombing (soecifically: "what do you call 4 dead Tories? A start" and "try riding your bike now Norman")

That's just off the top of my head by the way.

-or-

the tory choice

calumslist.org/