(Trigger Warning!!!) To think labour pain is not respected by healthcare professionals?

[Goldfishshoals]

Warning: you probably don't want to read this if pregnant/about to give birth!

Three weeks ago I gave birth. I had back labour - truly agonising. The pains started on Friday, but because they were about five-six minutes apart they were arbitrarily considered 'pre-labour' rather than actual labour (despite hurting as much as 'real' labour pains). They continued like that for four days, in which time I obviously got no sleep. I called the midwife for help several times and was fobbed off with 'take paracetamol', which unsurprisingly did bugger all for the intense stabbing sensation in my back every contraction. After one call in which I cried they let me come in (30 mins car ride there and back in pain!) and have a single dose of coedine (barely took the edge off) before sending me home.

On Tuesday my waters broke so I was finally allowed in the hospital for monitoring - I pretty much immediately begged for pain relief. 'of course you can have some!' said the midwife breezily before buggering off for fifteen minutes leaving me in pain. Then she came back and said she just had to ask a few questions then 'we'd see' about getting me some pain relief... I did eventually get given some gas and air.

My contractions never became more frequent on their own and eventually I ended up being induced with epidural - which wore off just in time for me to be fully dialated. First they said they'd get me more - then they said it was too late and gave me gas and air - which they took off me again when it was time for pushing. I begged for pain relief (for anything!) and was ignored. I struggled to push but the pain was overwhelming and stopped me being able to push fully. Baby eventually delivered with forceps, and episiotomy which I could barely feel in contrast to the agony I had been in.

I had third degree tear which needed stitching, and suddenly everything changed. I had an anaesthesitist numb me fully, and keep checking my pain levels for the theatre, I had a few days in hospital with three types of pain relief thrown at me, and I was sent home with boxes of unnecessary coedine etc, for the incredibly minor soreness of the stitches.

When I compare other hospital visits (for being run over by a car as a teen, and a more recent dvt) it's a similar story. My pain was taken a lot more seriously and I was given better pain relief much more quickly, despite them not being nearly as painful as my back labour.

I realise not everyone has back labour, and some people have much less painful births (lucky cows) but surely having high levels of pain isn't that unique? So why wasn't it treated seriously? The only thing I can think of is that labour pain just isn't respected. Aibu to think this?

They only let me have paracetamol after my cesarean because I've had gastritis before so ibuprofen was out, and they apparently didn't want me to have opiates in case of addiction. I was only offered paracetamol during induction of labour as well until they'd given me the gels, ruptured the membranes and started the drip up. I even had to fight for the paracetamol until I was on the labour ward.

I think inadequate pain relief in labour is just an indicator of misogyny in general, though. A couple of years ago I had a few episodes of extremely intense pain during sex - I felt like I'd been stabbed or something and was unable to move or speak for 30-60 minutes each time. I was honestly on the verge of trying to indicate that I might need an ambulance before it eased up, it was that bad.

When I saw my male GP he told me it's NORMAL for women to be in pain during sex and I was wasting his time!

I got a second opinion from a female GP in the practice because she thought I had endometriosis, and lo and behold, was diagnosed with PCOS. This was after 15 years of complaining to 4 different GP surgeries that I had ridiculously heavy periods and couldn't lose weight despite eating a healthy diet.

If PCOS and other gynecological issues were a male problem they'd have diagnosed me years ago rather than telling me I was imagining things and obviously secretly binging on junk food. PCOS isn't even a rare condition FFS!

YADNBU.

I was only offered gas and air. Bloody hours of agony. Exhausted after a vaginal birth I then had a consultant sticking his hand in there as my placenta had to be manually removed. Quick trip to the theatre under a GA as it wasn't budging and then wheeled back to a side room for one hour, then wheeled to a ward, with a drip and left.

Left in my bloody night shirt I'd given birth in, left to stagger to the dirty toilets, left to get on with it. I was a complete mess. I had to buzz someone to take the empty drip out of my arm. Ask if there was a shower I could use, was scoffed at and told there were only baths there. Asked if someone could look after ds while a cleaned myself up, felt that this was a HUGE inconvenience. I could just about get my leg over the bath, I felt so weak and wobbly but I felt like I needed to be out of there pronto to continue motherhood and just get bloody well on with it.

Bloody horrendous. Antenatal classes never taught you about that bit did they, mostly just the warm fuzzy stuff. What they should really teach you is how to run the gauntlet in the post natal wards afterwards. Awful experience and one I never repeated.

I had 3 with no pain relief as inrrded to listen to my body .... I did and it fucking hurt. But despite the stitches I had a wonderful baby!

Yanbu OP. My MW was utterly dismissive of my pain, didn't listen to me at all throughout my labour and ignored my requests for pain relief. As a result I went through 4 hours of unrelenting agony (back to back labour, continuous contraction pain from the moment my waters broke) followed by a third degree tear, an episiotomy and brutal forceps delivery, all on two paracetamol.

I was offered a bath for pain relief when I arrived (which took the MW an hour to run, by which time I was in too much pain to make it to the bathroom) and then gas and air just before she examined me for the last time, only to find I was 10cm and DD was in distress so it was whipped away in the ensuing panic to get her out.

The MW kept shouting at me that I wasn't pushing hard enough and telling me to push with my contractions but I had no idea when I was having a contraction because the pain was continuous. She even asked me at one point whether I wanted DD to die because I wasn't pushing properly.

Afterwards they took me to surgery to stitch up the damage, I had a spinal for that and vividly remember crying because the anaesthetist was so nice to me, it was the first bit of kindness I'd been shown since I arrived at hospital. I still can't fathom how they went from complete disregard for the pain I was in before DD was delivered to being so anxious to avoid me feeling any pain straight afterwards.

I know what they say about low risk women should go to a birth centre or birth at home because there's a higher chance of interventions at a hospital etc, but I am so grateful I chose the hospital.

If I had gone with the birth centre option not only would I not have been able to have an epidural (don't know if that's the same situation in the UK), but when things went pear shaped and it was decided I would be best to have a c-section, if I'd been at the birth centre I would have had to be put in an ambulance and blue lighted to the hospital 30 minutes away. That would not have been a lot of fun for anyone involved.

Being at the main hospital had nothing to do with needing the epidural or the c-section. The outcome would have been the same wherever I was and being in the hospital meant I wasn't stressed about having to be transferred to get the treatment I needed.

"I would have had to be put in an ambulance and blue lighted to the hospital 30 minutes away. That would not have been a lot of fun for anyone involved."

I don't know about your situation but it's definitely the case that a good number of women who say 'thank goodness I was in hospital because my labour became complicated/I needed an epidural, wouldn't have had a complicated labour if they hadn't been in hospital in the first place, and wouldn't have needed an epidural. It's also the case that transfers are rarely as upsetting as people who choose hospital settings for birth expect them to be. And I say that as someone who has transferred in from a homebirth.

If you had to design a setting for birth which was uniquely hostile to a well functioning labour you couldn't come up with anything that did the job better than your average NHS hospital.

• full of strangers? Check
• bright lights and chatter? Check
• routine interference with a woman's body? Check

I've had really long and challenging labours and what's made them not traumatic was the fact that I had a midwife with me every step of the way who I had a long established relationship of trust with, who was with me for more than one birth and who looked after me at home as well as at hospital when I transferred in. Makes a huge difference to the experience.

DS1 had planned section as he was breech. Fab experience - no pain during or after. Was sent home with diclofenac and morphine available when on the ward after.

DD2 - same hospital two years later. Another planned section as she was also breech/oblique. Section started and I felt pain. Told anaesthetist several times and he said it wasn't pain just my mind playing tricks. I continued to tell him I could feel them cutting. He eventually gave me something but said it would only last a few minutes....baby wasn't even out at that point. Drug wore off quickly so pain came back. After a while I shouted at the Drs to stop. I was crying and shaking and anaesthetist suggested that the spinal block had not fully worked. No fucking shit Sherlock! He told me my options were to be knocked out or gas and air. I wanted to be awake so did rest of it on gas and air. Baby came out needing help but is absolutely fine now. Overall, shit experience. But offered lots of pain relief afterwards.

@MooMooTheFirst I also had SPD horrendously with my first and it took a long time to recover. Ask for Physio it will help. And if you are in the midlands google Fiona Mitchell in harborne she specialises in this x

Er, our bodies aren't 'designed'. They've evolved/are evolving. Actually birth is one of the things we're least well evolved to do - our offspring have such big heads to accommodate the human brain that they have to come out at a comparatively undeveloped stage compared to other mammals, many of which can stand up and walk around immediately. Large brains plus pelvises adapted to walk upright means humans have probably the worst and most dangerous birth experience of any animal. All evolutionary processes 'care' about is that we survive long enough to reproduce (not consciously care, you know what I mean).

Reading this peacefully as I never have to give birth again. It is really upsetting though.

I actually don't think misogyny is the right word for this. I think male pain is ignored just as much as female pain, it's just that we go through more processes that produce 'natural' pain which if all goes 'normally' will resolve as part of the process, and of course there are consequences to every type of pain relief. However, the consequences are not always stated in a helpful way. I read so many articles about epidurals when I was pregnant and they all mentioned the slower labour/interventions side but when you look up the studies, none of them were based on mobile epidurals, and yet even when I gave birth 13 years ago, mobile epidurals were becoming the norm as I understood it. Where was the research about complications from more creative epidurals? Also, what training is done about the effects of the effort to remain in the room and be with people in pain and observe it analytically, and to have to make the choice about the right time to intervene? Psychologically what does that do to people? Especially if they decide, right, intervention time and they get knocked back?

It's almost more class-based than sex-based - being in the UK that's not surprising. The hierarchy is still there, however much doctors who are run ragged and who feel like they are at the bottom of the heap may not feel it is. The woman, in pain and the supplicant for pain relief; the midwife, the supplicant for intervention; and the person who gets to choose whether to give that pain relief or not. Everyone diving for resources in a very thinly-stretched arena - class differences will stick out more in that scenario.

I'm interested to see that oromorph is more in use in childbirth than perhaps I'd thought, as I see it in use in my job - and it's a great drug - but hell, the constipation! Maybe not after a few doses though? I was absolutely terrified of pooing after childbirth, the thought of taking a constipating drug would not have pleased me (it was completely fine but I was so scared I took a huge bag of water, Fybogel and apples in to the labour room and started on them 20 min after the birth).

"Minifingerz" wow do you mean to say that dimmed lights would have made a substantial difference to the fact that DD was back to back? Who knew that's all it took to get her to shift? Good that you are here to tell us!

It's rather patronising isn't it. And it's putting the blame back on women too - if you'd chosen the birthing centre...

Our birthing centre only opened recently and is in the same hospital as the main unit. Which is sensible imo.

Annandale there is an issue with gross oversimplification of consequences of different options in childbirth, generally seems to be to scare us. Cost cutting is definitely a feature. As is dismissing the issues women have ; a pp mentioned ongoing hip problems due to spd. This was the reason I forced a section as my pain free gap was minuscule and so a vaginal birth would have meant that had to be exceeded. I was told they'd just give me an epidural so I wouldn't be aware of it and that would be fine because it's just a condition of pain and there's no risk of ongoing damage. Which is bollocks

My last birth was pretty shitty. I was induced contractions came on very painful and quite close to start with, I put up with the pain for about an hour before ringing the bell and was offered paracetamol. I said I don't think that will do much will it? I had to have a drip to speed things up in the end and it was the most awful pain I've ever experienced. My ds wasn't breathing right when we were in hospital everyone I spoke to dismissed it but he has a floppy larynx.

I have a high tolerance for pain so much that my first three births nice and reasonably straight forward despite all being back to back and dc 3 doing the turning thing as he came out I remember the mw exclaiming oh my he's revolving.

However I hate hate hate internal examinations and no one listens. My last dc no.4 I kept telling her no and to stop it was so so painful I bit through my lip to which she wasn't bothered by in the slightest. I still 3 years on feel quite upset just remembering it.
Though my worst experience was when after dc1 I was stitched with no anaesthetic. But wasn't I lucky to have such an experienced mw with me.
I think a mumsnet campaign about gynaecological treatment in general with labour and birth as a specific could hopefully do some good

It's great to have the option of birth centres but they're not for everyone. I was persuaded to go to the midwife led ward in my local hospital (by NCT) and in my case it was the wrong choice and the midwife there clearly didn't believe how much pain I was in and again was only offere paracetamol despite 30 hours of painful contractions (stuck at 3cm for about 20 hours - no pain relief until you get to 4cm). I believe that had I gone to the labour ward they would have intervened earlier.

Also someone was talking about the risks associated with pain relief. Yes there are risks, but these need to be balanced against the benefits. I had an epidural and ended up with forceps, episiotomy and bruised coccyx. Couldn't sit comfortably for about two months. Still a no brainer and would go for epidural again. Just wish I had it earlier so I that I wouldn't have the psychological difficulties now whenever I think about tbe birth or giving birth again.

After having quite a traumatic birth, 2 surgeries in 6 hours and needing to be monitored in the high dependency unit, the midwife refused to give me any more pain relief, fortunately my consultant was doing her ward round and gave me access to a lovely German anaesthetist who insisted the British approach to pain relief - stiff upper lip was to blame. I have no time for midwives - every one I encountered seemed to hate their job. I just wanted to shout out for the Health Care Assistants who were so kind and lovely to me.
Dh had stayed with me in High dependency - caring for me and our babies, when I moved to a single room the post natal ward they told him he'd need to go - I told them to prepare my discharge papers because I wasn't prepared to be left in their care. Midwives are evil.

My waters were broken for my second birth. She was at this stage 16 days overdue! I started contracting almost immediately and they were so strong and painful, I found it hard to even breathe properly. I was totally overwhelmed. I've never experienced pain l like it before or since and I had a broken pelvis and gall stones. I was given an epidural after an hour as it was clearly evident I wasn't going to be able to cope. The relief was tremendous.

I think this is an interesting thread re the attitudes towards pain in labour, which is clearly underestimated at best. to you all who have suffered at what should be a happy time.

I totally agree with the nonsense about our bodies being 'designed' for birth. Both mine and DH's great GMs died giving birth and that really wasn't that long ago and was still relatively common. Also, the vast majority of women tear or need an episiotomy- that sounds like a fairy major design fault. I agree that women are given virtually no information about the negatives of vaginal birth. I don't know if it's still going but there was a long running thread on here by women who had suffered horrible injuries from VB. I know one woman who is faecally incontinent as the result of a vb.
I think we sometimes go too far in banging the 'pregnancy/birth isn't an illness' drum. No, it isn't but it can leave you feeling pretty shit. Many pregnancies are straightforward but many aren't- if you have SPD, sciatica and severe sickness, you're not exactly going to be feeling your best. But I've seen women on here called snowflakes and told 'You're not ill you're pregnant' for asking for certain concessions when they're heavily pregnant or feeling really sick.
As a PP said, many other cultures treat women who have just given birth very differently and all they are expected to do is lie in bed and feed the baby. We seem to have this expectation that we have to get back to normal as quickly as possible. I remember walking round Sainsbury's when DS2 was 4 days old and feeling that I was going to pass out but I hadn't felt able to say that I didn't feel up to going because I wasn't 'ill'.

As an NHS midwife this is difficult reading. Especially being brandished as evil - not all of us sheepskin!!

I find it very challenging caring for women in the latent phase of labour (0-4 cm) who are struggling to cope. There simply is not the rescources to admit everyone at that stage for possibly up to a week and there is limited pain relief available at home. Honestly the best place in early labour is at home, once in hospital your chances of developing complications increases. In cases were women really are not coping and suggested strategies have been tried and found unuseful I tend to admit to our ward and give diamorphine. This tends to work well in early labour and I have found women usually either establish in labour or don't but can go home having had some respite and rest. We cannot give lots of doses of this as it can be bad for your baby. I am lucky I work in a unit that has capacity for this, much busier units simply don't have the beds.

In labour I really don't understand why women are denied epidural - makes no difference to me what pain relief a woman has. Although sometimes it is too late for an epidural.

A vaginal birth is the best option - until it's not. Sometimes that might be know in advance and a section planned but childbirth is unpredictable and the best until it's not can change in an instant. I am sorry for all your terrible experiences.

I had a homebirth booked for dc2, wasn't "allowed" to use it though as I had to be induced (I did insist I wasn't being induced til +16)

No idea why realistically a pessary means I can't go back home (never needed more than the pessary). Obviously there is the cascade of intervention, but how much of that is the setting rather than the treatment...?

Honestly the best place in early labour is at home, once in hospital your chances of developing complications increases.

Alternatively, women who are in early labour in hospital are less likely to be experiencing straightforward births and/or to be coping with the pain, and therefore at greater risk for complications...

Rest was a useful read though. I can imagine it must be very difficult looking after women in the circumstances you describe.

Yanbu. I'm still traumatised 16 years on - i was back to back labour, DD got stuck and i was pushing for hours, doctor told me to stop being so hysterical then they were all rushing into the room shouting we need to get this baby out now, ventouse and episiotomy and stitches and I was still in a hideous level of pain after it all. They didn't believe me and told me to calm down, all women are a little uncomfortable after labour. It was getting worse and worse, like being stabbed repeatedly inside and I kept telling the mws. They just told me I was making a fuss, baby was here and safe (she'd been born blue and not breathed for a minute but hey) and I was fine.
It got worse. I called the mw over with the call button to be told I was only experiencing what every woman does and being difficult.
When the doctor came round I begged her to look. I was crying and couldn't sit or stand. Mw told doctor I was making a bit of a fuss.
Doctor found they'd stitched in a massive haemotoma. She told me I'd have likely haemorrhaged and died with it.
After hours of surgery I couldn't move and was left lying in bed with no meal and a crying baby I couldn't reach. Mw then told me all women were supposed to get out of bed and get their own breakfast and I was being difficult. Told her I couldn't move; she said I wasn't trying hard enough.
I then got reprimanded for keeping DD in bed with me as it was the only way i could reach her to feed.
There was so much more with the shit postnatal care, and when I had DS too (left on the delivery bed bleeding for 8 hours before stitching by a med student).
However I've also experienced similar attitudes in other areas of the hospital (frequent patient) - shocking pain being minimised, being told I'm making a fuss when crying with pain from double pneumonia and pneumothorax for eg. I'm not sure it's only a labour ward thing - i think its an NHS lack of staffing and training thing. I do agree it is worse for women somehow and it comes out most in gynaecological issues.

That'snotmyusername if you are one of the nice ones - you'll stand out and be very much appreciated. I did not meet any nice, caring midwives and I was in Hospital for 5 days!

Thanks 'Thatsnotmyusername' - just to say that I had a wonderful midwife once I got into established labour, she really cared for me so well so don't agree that all midwives are evil! Though some are definitely better than others.

I understand what you are saying about the latent phase but can't it also be a bit of a false economy when women are in and out of hospital like yoyos hoping that they're finally in established labour each time? In some cases wouldn't it be more efficient to get them going (with hormone drip for example) therefore speeding up labour and freeing up the bed more quickly.

I know in the UK you're not in established labour until 4cm but apparently in other countries (eg Ireland) they can consider you in labour from as little as 1cm if it's your first. I also know a doctor (as in, she was thr woman in labour) who insisted on an epidural at only 2cm and got it.

I'm really scared of having another long latent phase if I get pregnant again.

I don't know how to say this without possibly causing offence but my issue with the whole 'pick a birth centre, they are designed for low intervention' is that some women won't want to pick a birth centre. They know they don't want to experience the pain, they are happy with a labour ward environment that makes interventions more available. The approach shouldn't be 'how do we get women like that out of hospital' but instead 'how can we ensure sufficient treatment is made available'.

Birth centres are great for people like me who want that environment. But I don't believe the whole 'hospital leads to more interventions therefore hospital bad' thinking is necessarily right. It implies no woman would ever willingly choose interventions. Which is clearly bollocks.

Individual women should come before ideology. Which currently they don't.