To be asked to take minutes?

[Bottlesoflove]

I went to a monthly meeting I had not attended before, I am in a professional role and I work in a team of three, with two other male colleagues (all of the same "rank"). All three of us were there. My boss said the secretary couldn't come so could I take minutes? I had never been to one of these meetings before so not aware of the "format" they usually take, plus I have never taken minutes before, plus I didn't know the names of many of the people in the room... so I said "oh I don't know, not sure I would do a great job, maybe x or y could do it?" (My two other male colleagues - both been in the job slightly longer and would have attended this meeting before). At which point my boss said begrudgingly "don't worry I'll do it" and made me feel bad for making a senior do it. My two male colleagues just sat there.

Am I reading too much into this, or is there a hint of everyday sexism here? I was one of the only females there. It seemed he would rather make a big point of doing it himself than asking another professional male to do it, even though they were junior to him...🤔

Someone needs to write a book about managing sexism at work at a relatively junior level (not specific to the op, but lots of people on hmthis thread have good advice).

YY RunRabbit, the socials and looking for things! It's amazing how often this happens in the office. Regardless of role, it's a woman who will be asked. It's so ingrained.

:)

The danger of going out of your way to be helpful, and "being a team player" is that it can backfire horribly: You end up with a lot more work to do than your male peers (who aren't expected to do the same amount of extra donkey work), and if you aren't careful can get a reputation for being unreliable and poor at time management - there are only so many hours in the day! While not really being acknowledged for the extra work - they are, after all, thankless tasks.
Being able to politely say no to extra work, when you don't have the time or knowledge to do it is an important skill.

Its hard to say if it was a sexist request, one with a hint of sexism, luck of the draw request or you were asked because your boss knew you would do a good job and your colleagues are dicks.

Whatever the reason, in your bosses mind, its very easy to see sexism in the request.

Until retirement I was a teacher, I'm male, and sometimes in am middle management role sometimes just a plain teacher. Sometimes with a male HOD, latterly with a female HOD. Towards the end I was the only male in the department.

We had minutes, sometimes we took turns sometimes we'd/I'd volunteer.

I used to make the teas - so that A. we got one B. It was a decent brew and C. so that no-one could be asked in a sexist way.

Sometimes it best to take the minutes to A. stay awake and B. to put them, bias them, so that they say what you want them to say.

I've sometimes worked in collusion with two of my previous HOD's on getting minutes to say what they needed to say.

I suppose the equivalent of being asked to take minutes was being asked to cut up wood on the circular saw.

I never saw it as a sexist request, I was happy to do it, was taller and so had a better reach and had always done it for myself anyway. The machine had modified a previous colleagues finger so some were a bit squeamish about using it. We all worked as a team and we all knew our and others strengths and weaknesses.

Going back to the question - the test is if you are asked again.... Then is the time to question or say its another person's turn. The response will then give you the answer.

"I never saw it as a sexist request, I was happy to do it, was taller and so had a better reach and had always done it for myself anyway"

....Well there's the difference. You had experience of using the machine, the machine was designed to be more easily used by a taller person with better reach, and you were happy to do it. I'd also suggest that there were H&S considerations in your example - it would not be a good idea for someone who had never used a circular saw before to do so without being trained how to use it safely.

Completely different to the OP's example, where she had no physical advantage that made her more suited to minute taking, nor any experience. No-one's lack of experience could lead to them losing a finger either papercut maybe

In my industry (engineering) all the junior engineers would take turns taking minutes - in longer meetings we'd normally agree to double up, so that less would be missed, and we would get a chance to contribute. That's fine. But neither your experience nor mine are terribly relevant to the OP - she works in a completely different industry to both of us, with different expectations and culture.

Jcsp - having never been known to my boss to be in an administrative role there is no reason to believe he thought I would do a good job, as he has never seen me work in this context.

As RunRabbit says, it makes sense to read the lay of the land in a new workplace to ensure you don't end up the dogsbody, before deciding how best to be a team player. That is very different from being desperate to please a bunch of people you don't know.

I once had to travel from Manchester to London and back in one day for a 2.5 hour meeting so I could minute it. I'm not trained in taking minutes and there were people in the London office trained in shorthand and experienced in taking them. Total joke!!

I dont think using the saw is equivalent - it would have to be a traditionally visibly low-status job. Maybe if youd been asked to do the janitorial work or the gardening then that might be closer.

Honey and was that because you are female?
Really?

Yep, everyday sexism there. Very much well done to you for speaking up, your boss is the one who should feel bad about it!! x

We have a cleaning rota at work for the kitchen (which the office cleaner is not allowed to touch as it's not in her remit etc). I was approached to go on the cleaning rota and looked at this list - literally all women. When the original email was sent round asking for volunteers it was sent to everyone - very few responses. So administrator then went round asking for volunteers, and only approached women. I asked her about this and I gave an example of a male colleague she could ask. She said "Oh no, I wouldn't ask him, he's got 3 kids at home". WTAF?!?!?!

I'm going to be raising it in the next meeting as tbh it's one of a long list of sexist things going on in our workplace. Another being a humiliating email sent round from a male colleague to all staff saying that the women's changing rooms are filthy/disgusting/vile etc and we (the women) need to take better care of them. I'm sure the men's is sparkling.

That's infuriating potato salad. A d yet there will be posters on here who still believe that only women should be asked to be on the cleaning rota

"Jcsp - having never been known to my boss to be in an administrative role there is no reason to believe he thought I would do a good job, as he has never seen me work in this context"

fair comment.

"You had experience of using the machine, the machine was designed to be more easily used by a taller person with better reach, and you were happy to do it. I'd also suggest that there were H&S considerations in your example - it would not be a good idea for someone who had never used a circular saw before to do so without being trained how to use it safely."

We'd all had training and a top up after the finger reshaping incident. But iItake your point.

To be honest I'd be annoyed if I'd been asked like this to take minutes.

I often found it embarrassing when visitors came in and spoke to me, thinking I was HOD, rather than Jane who was actually HOD.

Showme - I barely clean my own fucking house, no way am I going to clean the kitchen at work up after a load of men! 😮

Fair play to you for or can challenging this! Can I ask what you would have said if he turned around and said 'no you'll be fine, I don't expect them to be perfect first time'

Actually one university I worked at had a tea towel washing rota in the kitchen ... all women ... you were supposed to take the tea towels home on Fridays and wash them. There was also a group of women who organised the milk and biscuits for the kitchen, and chased contributions. I encouraged them to set up an honesty scheme instead, and arranged a weekly milk order so people didn't have to run around to shops in their lunch hours, and once it became clear we were making more money as it was more efficient, I suggested we buy a dishwasher out of any profits. People looked like I had landed from Mars.

i think this is the perfect response. (Found on twitter.)

ShowMePotatoSalad I would be on the warpath if either of those things happened in my workplace.

Love it Annie. Although I would definitely help out maLe and female colleagues by taking notes, making coffee etc as long as it wasn't expected. And of course that I felt the favour would eb reciprocated

Everyday sexism. Well done for standing your ground

Yep everyday sexism. YANBU.

Luckily the men I work with don't behave like a bunch of bitter women screaming "sexism" when I asked if someone could help me with a flat tyre on my car in the office carpark.

McSporran, did you ask men to help with your tyre because you assumed men would be better at it? Or because all the people present were men?

That's the difference.