To be asked to take minutes?

[Bottlesoflove]

I went to a monthly meeting I had not attended before, I am in a professional role and I work in a team of three, with two other male colleagues (all of the same "rank"). All three of us were there. My boss said the secretary couldn't come so could I take minutes? I had never been to one of these meetings before so not aware of the "format" they usually take, plus I have never taken minutes before, plus I didn't know the names of many of the people in the room... so I said "oh I don't know, not sure I would do a great job, maybe x or y could do it?" (My two other male colleagues - both been in the job slightly longer and would have attended this meeting before). At which point my boss said begrudgingly "don't worry I'll do it" and made me feel bad for making a senior do it. My two male colleagues just sat there.

Am I reading too much into this, or is there a hint of everyday sexism here? I was one of the only females there. It seemed he would rather make a big point of doing it himself than asking another professional male to do it, even though they were junior to him...🤔

@McSporran, not allowing yourself to have all the "helpful" tasks dumped on you is only considered bolshy if one is female. That's misogyny at work, clear and simple.

I spent seven years at uni studying my specialism. I'm damn good at my job. I'm not lucky to be employed. I am, however, lucky to have sufficient gravitas and skills to be able to gently refuse when my co-workers engage in everyday sexism. And I make sure that I coach any young women that I work with to do the same.

If people got ahead in their careers for being helpful and compliant, men would be elbowing each other out of the way to do the birthday cards, leaving gifts, and yes, write all the minutes...

Right only got to page 4, but can people please stop telling OP how she can improve her minuting skills, that it was a missed opportunity and that she should waste her, quite frankly precious time, shadowing fucking meetings so she can learn.

The OP is a doctor. She doesn't need to ever know how to minute a meeting. Ever.
Her time is much better spent with patients or keeping up with latest medical research not learning how to format minutes, for fuck sake.

OP from the title of this thread I just knew what this thread would be about. Sexist and presumptious behaviour and I think you did exactly the right thing. I've had PA/secretarial roles in the past so would expect to be asked to take minutes as part of my job. It's more than just chance that as the only woman you were asked. He's learnt a lesson there. Good.

Ruby but if she gets really good at it she might be able to get a little job to supplement her husband's income

Well of course! Why didn't I think of that.....a nice bit of pin money.

Minute taking is a skill and required prep, I don't imagine this minutes are going to be great...

I can't believe we got so many pages in before someone reacted to the post declaring minute taking "a learning opportunity" - WTF??

I don't want a doctor that knows how to take fucking minutes, I want a doctor who can be a bloody good doctor! How is the OP learning how to take minutes a good learning opportunity?? It's not even relevant to her career for fucks sake!!

And yes, you were asked because you were female and no other reason.

Sexist bullshit.

Thank you for those who have realised I was not belittling the skill of minute-taking by simply pointing out that it is not high on my to-do list for life-skills to learn, given what my job entails on a daily basis...

I like your style randomuntrainedcuntowner - and thank you for all the work you do.

I think you just have to adjust on MN for a certain proportion of the response being resentment at women who dare to know that they're good at something out of the ordinary.

Unconscious bias as someone else remarked.

Fistpump peter 👊

And I am still grateful for this thread for giving me possibly the best username EVER! 😉

This sounds like sexism at its finest. Ask for a volunteer or do it yourself is my rule of thumb. Sorry you were put in that position OP.

During job interviews for my position I make it very clear I don't do minutes or food. I say this clearly and mean it - and remind folks of it as needed. Minutes are very important - why meet if they are not clear and concise, shared and approved etc. I write like a beheaded chicken, and get too involved watching body language to actually write down anything said. As to food, I proudly point to my rather ample self and say "I'm an eater, not a feeder" and smile. End of conversation usually.

Managing partner does the minutes, senior partner handles food. Neither blessed with a vagina.

Glad to be of service randomuntrainedcuntowner

Ooooooh that would give me the rage op ! Good for you for not doing it

Although second place for best username goes to Strokethefurrywall.

YADNBU. I'm a junior (only qualified 10 years ago!) doctor too and I would have said no for exactly the same reason. You weren't refusing because you're female or it was beneath you but because you wouldn't have done a good job of it. I've been in meetings where I would be happy to take minutes but many others where I wouldn't.

And yes the sexism in our profession is awful. From seniors esp certain specialties but also patients. I've lost count of the times I've taken a history, examined the patient explained my plan and then been asked when the doctor will see them, or complaints to the nurse about not being seen by a doctor. And yes I have always clearly introduced myself as the doctor. It gets wearing!

It won't make you feel any better, OP, but I was made an 'honourary' girl on joining my job (finance director) - and do make the first cup of tea of the day.

There is instilled sexism where I work, in that the engineers don't answer the phone - but, as I took over from a lady who had done my job for 20 years, it was always assumed I would be fine with the phone.

(sorry for 'mansplaining' ;)

Sexist and also ridiculous. randomuntrainedcuntowner I am a medical student with a 1 year old and I know EXACTLY what you mean about the everyday sexism in medicine. It is a shame but it is actually putting me off selecting certain specialties just because I know the environment could make me miserable, how sad in 2017

Really good advice in general to never make tea or take minutes if you're female until you're clearly at the stage of mucking in.

Well done you for sticking up for yourself. Definitely sexist, although so ingrained they'd be unlikely to recognise it as such.

Its not just the clinical side of things - I'm corporate NHS and have been for several years now and see it a lot. I had someone from a completely different team come into my office at one place and as I was the only woman in the room, asked me if the meeting room was all set up for the big meeting. I politely said I didn't know as I wasn't involved in those meetings. He looked a bit put out and huffed that he'd go and check.

A couple of minutes later he was back, "Well, do you at least have the code for the meeting room door?" He asked, more rudely now.

I smiled sweetly and said, "No, like I said, I'm not involved in your team's meetings, as I'm one of the analysts."

He was genuinely shocked that I was one of the techies and actually admitted (though didn't apologise) that he'd walked into a room of men and assumed the only woman there would be the assistant/administrator. The actual assistant arrived a few minutes later.

My current boss always takes his own minutes. A previous boss had me minute all his meetings, whether it was a big meeting or just him and one other person. I had to do the seen and not heard thing, and he would get me to do the most ridiculous non job related tasks all the time. I honestly wouldn't have been surprised if he'd asked me to collect his dry cleaning and wipe his arse!

Well done for saying no, OP. I remember being the only woman in a huge meeting at work once; my then boss noticed everyone looking expectantly at me for tea and poured it himself, bless him - he was the most senior guy there.

I couldn't comment on whether it was sexist or not... I'm a doctor too and I could maybe envisage the most junior member of the team having to take notes. You haven't mentioned whether your colleagues are the same grade as you. Annoyingly in my experience male doctors can be treated as if they are several grades more senior than you, even if not though!

I'm dying to know what kind of meeting it was just out of nosiness.

Both my parents regularly take minutes in their jobs. My mum is a secretary/PA and my dad is a company director. So I think it really varies with the meeting and the resources you have available.

I know at work I am often asked to do tasks (make tea for patients/take them to the toilet) by patients and relatives that my male colleagues will never be asked to do. I do it if I can do it or for example if it needs doing more urgently than whatever clinical job is next on my list, and there's no one else to do it. I guess the same applies to your minutes-
you didn't feel you could do it to the best it could be done and there was someone else who could do it. I think it's fair to say no! YANBU.

The op does say
I work in a team of three, with two other male colleagues (all of the same "rank").

Why thank you randomuntrainedcuntowner and congratulate you on a sterling name yourself

I have worked in male dominated corporate environments for years.

When in a newish group I deliberately avoid making drinks, taking minutes, booking meetings for anyone else, arranging meeting rooms, getting stationery from the cupboard, searching for anything for anyone, ordering lunches for meetings, arranging "socials" or sorting out printer consumables. I will not allow myself to be talked over or interrupted.

Even when established in the group, I make sure I only do my exact fair share/rotation. I keep a secret note in my mind of when everyone else has had their turn at, say, changing the toner before I will do it again.

The men I work with are mostly lovely competent professionals. They would be outraged at the suggestion they are sexist. They don't really get how good old deep-seated everyday sexism works, that death by a thousand cuts, because they've never lived it.

I have to actively police the boundaries. I'm not interested in accusing them of sexism. I am much happier looking blankly at them and saying "no idea" when they ask where their printing is, or saying "nah, I'll never get round to it, you book it this time, send me an invitation"

Oh yes sorry I totally missed the bit where OP said they were the same grade of seniority. That's definitely ringing more alarm bells then!