To be asked to take minutes?

[Bottlesoflove]

I went to a monthly meeting I had not attended before, I am in a professional role and I work in a team of three, with two other male colleagues (all of the same "rank"). All three of us were there. My boss said the secretary couldn't come so could I take minutes? I had never been to one of these meetings before so not aware of the "format" they usually take, plus I have never taken minutes before, plus I didn't know the names of many of the people in the room... so I said "oh I don't know, not sure I would do a great job, maybe x or y could do it?" (My two other male colleagues - both been in the job slightly longer and would have attended this meeting before). At which point my boss said begrudgingly "don't worry I'll do it" and made me feel bad for making a senior do it. My two male colleagues just sat there.

Am I reading too much into this, or is there a hint of everyday sexism here? I was one of the only females there. It seemed he would rather make a big point of doing it himself than asking another professional male to do it, even though they were junior to him...🤔

...what I see here, and what I have seen time and time again in many walks of life is a bunch of senior people, men and women, who say 'oh I couldn't possibly take the minutes, I would be so rubbish at it', the implication being that they are only good at Very Important Things and making Very Important Decisions and they need a host of minions to help them with basics.

There is some skill in minute taking but it is hardly rocket science, and for anyone, man or woman, who is literate and can use a computer, to claim they can't take the minutes is pretty pathetic tbh. You write down what happens then type it up.

I actually fundamentally disagree with it and I think it devalues administrative work. It is not work that just anyone can do. Effective minute taking is a skill that takes learning. Just writing down what everyone says is not how you take minutes. Had I done that when I minuted NHS meetings I would have had 90 pages of drivel and no recording of decisions as they liked to waffle on.

You need to know what is critical and what is not. You need to know what has to be recorded. You need to be able to say "so what is the actual decision here & who is responsible for it?" It. Is. A. Skill.

This idea that secretarial work can be done by anyone devalues the bloody amazing secretaries and PAs I know. Funny enough when secretaries were men they were much better thought of.

I don't think taking medical notes on a ward round is rocket science, but I would expect someone non-clinical who is not used to doing it to be daunted by the task. Often when medical students first go into the wards someone more experienced will help them/explain how it's done at first.

I was daunted at the task of taking minutes as I felt like I was going to balls it up as I hadn't done it before.

I am not too "important". I've worked as a healthcare assistant, worked in bars in holidays and even after I qualified while I was waiting to start my first post, and had a string of temporary jobs throughout my pregnancy when I was on a year out of medical school. My job now has many administrative obligations such as writing discharge summaries, compiling ward lists, mdt lists etc etc. And I do them because my clinical knowledge puts me in a better position to do them. However I have never had to take minutes before - never had to follow a fast flowing meeting and then produce a document (which will be the only written record of an important discussion) in a format that was understandable to everyone in a room full of strangers at a meeting I had never been to before.

Also I know that my boss would have probably dumped his reporters notepad of illegible pencil written notes on his sec's desk as she would have been expected to try and decipher them, whereas I would have wanted to/been expected to do a better job than that. 😉

This happened to me once in a meeting of ten people - I was the only female apart from the Chief Executive, who was chairing the meeting - and it was her who asked me to take the minutes. I was hopping mad and refused

Secretary in my company is a title only given to company secretaries. Many earn more than the CEO. They do minute take, and do it well, but that's only part of their job.

Wow. Some of you women are lucky to have jobs. (Uppity I'm looking at you too). I'd have found a reason to sack you if I'd been the CE.

We all hate working with jobsworths and people that won't do it "cos it's not in my job description"

I've been very successful. Party because I don't have that attitude.

I'd have found a reason to sack you if I'd been the CE.

Love to see you try to fire someone for not taking the minutes when the secretary doesn't turn up.

@McSporran- in my line of work if the secretary can't minute take and/or we don't have a suitably qualified minute taker we cancel the meeting.

You wouldn't last long in business mcsporran, after the unlimited damages for gender discrimination...

Can't believe people are suggesting this as a development opprtunity for the op!

I didn't say I wouldn't do it because it wasn't in my job description. I politely suggested someone else did it as I didn't feel competent. I do things every day that are not in my job description if I can do them. I wouldn't refuse to get a sandwich/cup of tea/extra blanket for a patient "because it is the HCA's job"

You said earlier that you refused to take minutes in a meeting you didn't understand and got one of the engineers to do it instead. How is what I did any different?

Stealth - I know! 😂 I miss development opportunities every day that would actually be useful/I'm entitled to as part of my training because of the demands of my job. How on earth have I got time to become an accomplished minute taker?!

And that post is dripping with "attitude".

I take minutes when it suits me. So at a recent series of meetings where I'm driving work we need from another organisation it suits me to track actions. In a recent internal meeting I volunteered as I am already established.
In a recent very formal meeting I set up and chaired I asked the most junior member of my team to take minutes. He was happy to. Next time I will make sure to ask the other team member who is female.

Mines white with two sugars, not too strong thanks op

(Knows my place - don't want to be seen as a jobsworth)😉

Cheers pet

Ahhhhhh

Has my uncouth slurping killed the thread?

The men are equally lucky to have jobs, and I didnt read about them clamouring to take minutes once the OP refused. I guess their days are numbered?

Wow. Some of you women are lucky to have jobs. (Uppity I'm looking at you too). I'd have found a reason to sack you if I'd been the CE.

Nah, some of us are sufficiently valuable that you'd just have to fucking lump it if we wouldn't do the random untrained cuntowner work.

Totally sexist.

You know, we are socialised to think we're being paranoid about these things. We're not.

You were asked by a man because you are a woman.

Although we cannot be sure what your boss was thinking, it does sound like a classic sexist attitude. . Well done you for refusing and in such a mature and positive way. . I would have wanted to but wouldn't have been brave enough. There is no way you can fully participate in the meeting if you are minuting. That's why meetings normally have someone with that specific role. Hopefully your boss will get his act together and arrange things better in future.

Unless it's completely clear it's an equal distribution of tasks all round, my advice would be to be deliberately terrible at anything to do with minutes, agendas, mailing lists, rotas, making drinks, baking cakes for the office, providing informal counselling to sad looking types, and remembering birthdays. That frees up time and headspace for working on your next promotion. Why do you think the men all try to get out of doing this stuff?? They expect women to feel guilt and engage in the emotional work of oiling the wheels of business while they reap the spoils. Is it selfish? No, save your emotions for the things that matter, like helping other people at work who have real problems like recovering from cancer, car crashes, and nasty c-sections. Don't waste a moment on trying to please blokes who quite simply can't be bothered to do the grunt work.

(Last time I really had to make coffee I put three spoons of instant in each cup and made sure the water was barely warm enough to dissolve the powder. I put the oldest milk in from the office fridge as well. I didn't get asked again).