To be asked to take minutes?

[Bottlesoflove]

I went to a monthly meeting I had not attended before, I am in a professional role and I work in a team of three, with two other male colleagues (all of the same "rank"). All three of us were there. My boss said the secretary couldn't come so could I take minutes? I had never been to one of these meetings before so not aware of the "format" they usually take, plus I have never taken minutes before, plus I didn't know the names of many of the people in the room... so I said "oh I don't know, not sure I would do a great job, maybe x or y could do it?" (My two other male colleagues - both been in the job slightly longer and would have attended this meeting before). At which point my boss said begrudgingly "don't worry I'll do it" and made me feel bad for making a senior do it. My two male colleagues just sat there.

Am I reading too much into this, or is there a hint of everyday sexism here? I was one of the only females there. It seemed he would rather make a big point of doing it himself than asking another professional male to do it, even though they were junior to him...🤔

Definite huge helping of sexism there OP.

I work in corporate Governance for HE and it is my job to take minutes, however I have also been involved with meetings where the minute clerk has been unwell or unable to attend and a senior male member of staff attending the meeting has stepped in to minute (this includes the Vice-Chancellor who will remind us that regardless of rank we are all administrators).

What century is your colleague living in??

Duotwo - nothing could be further from the truth. You would not believe some of the sexism I have experienced in work, especially as I had a child during med school. Some specialities are like an old boys club

That's really sad to hear. 🙁 It's amazing how out of touch some pompous old farts can be.

Yeah this was one of the subtler examples - hence why I put it to the panel...😉

... well then, I'll change my stance to YANBU 😁

Definitely sexist but I might have phrased my response to my boss slightly differently e.g 'why yes I could do it, however I've not attended this meeting before and my colleagues have so I was just wondering why you are specifically asking me?' in a polite tone.

Never been less than full time or received any paid maternity leave, outperformed many of my male childless colleagues in exams and have excellent attendance, but women doctors like me are the reason the NHS is going to the dogs apparently.

The passive aggressive "don't worry I'll do it" is bad enough without even considering the sexism!

Mother, yes I could have worded it differently, I was just a bit put on the spot. In fact I can't remember my exact wording, but I know I did suggest that one of the others may know what they are doing more than me. I was definitely polite and not shitty about it I know that.

Definitely sexist

I work in a male dominated industry and steer well clear of volunteering for minute taking or any organisational work. It's pretty scary how fast "female manager" can turn into "untrained unpaid secretary with no time to do own job" when given the slightest hint of encouragement - I've worked with excellent PAs and to diminish their role by suggesting any random untrained cunt owner can do it at the drop of a hat is pretty obnoxious.

Slightly - I am changing my username to "untrainedcuntowner" 😂😂😂😂

Or even better randomuntrainedcuntowner

Ta da!

I was due a new name anyway, and this thread is quite identifying! 😂

Unfortunately with traditionally "male" professions, a "nip it in the bud" amount of making sure you dont drift into these sexist lower-status jobs will allow you to happily be a team player with them later once you are established as an equal within the department.

Yep, as PP have said, a big dollop of everyday sexism. And also, participants in a meeting cannot take minutes, and shouldn't be asked. The minute taker also needs to know who the participants are, and what kind of minutes are wanted. Is it a full verbatim account of the meeting, not so often done nowadays, or the more common notes - 'The meeting discussed...'., 'general discussion followed and it was agreed...' , the action points and who's assigned to take action.

I expect this when I join the management group of the 14 house owners of the development I'm moving to on Friday. I saw the minutes and they're all male. I have my answer to being asked to take the minutes - 'No thank you'. To 'Why not?', the answer is 'Why?'. With a smile of course. It's usually the minute taker who also arranges the catering and meeting room too.

A well run business meeting should have an agenda circulated before the meeting too, and an attendance list signed by all the attendees at the meeting before the meeting actually gets under way, and the missing parties listed as MIA non-attendances.

Taking minutes is not just for clerics. I work in a professional role, and if we have an important negotiation, one of us will take the minutes. If I'm leading the negotiations, one of the lawyers or my boss will take notes/minutes. If my boss is leading negotiations, me or the lawyer will take minutes. It's easier that way as often only the people taking part in the negotiation can understand the nuances and know which points are of most importance.

Having said that, it is sexist of your boss to expect 'the female' to take minutes especially if he does not ask male colleagues to do so.

Yeah that was totally sexist. Excellent job at refusing, too.

I completely agree that in some meetings and some organisations, taking minutes = seizing power, and I've definitely used them to my advantage more than once, but I work in a really woman-heavy environment and we generally use a minutes rota so the same person doesn't do it all the time (no admin support).

For your job it makes no sense at all to be in charge of the minutes - what a waste of any doctor's time, and why the hell should you be penalised over the men in the room?

It's not just note taking, tea making is also the assumed responsibility of a woman. When somebody comes to our offices to have a meeting with our boss, on his way down to getting them he will always pop his head into our office and politely ask me "if I wouldn't mind making some tea" - even though there's 5 of us sat on the same bank of desks and we do the same job but the other 2 are male. Now apparently I do make the best drinks in the office (don't use stale water, brew the bag for the right time, full mug rather than half etc etc) however I'm thinking it's not really because of that that I get asked, more unconscious but embedded sexism ("it's a girls job"). I still smile and do it. Should say no really. Well done OP

I personally wouldn't have seen it as sexist. In my experience in meetings, it was always the most junior person who took the minutes and they'd only do them once (someone else's turn next time). If this couldn't be sorted prior to the meeting, it was the most junior person in the room.
You may, as the newest person there been invited to see and gain experience - your more senior (by which I mean been there longer) colleagues may have had more input that you so your boss may not have wanted them to do the task.
Also, how embarrassed would your boss have been if the other two also said no. It would make him look and feel like he hadn't got a grip on his workforce.
Failing that, as your boss, he also knows people's strengths and weaknesses - he may have genuinely thought that you were the most reliable person for the job.
Don't be so quick to think everything is about being sexist when it doesn't go your way or you're asked to do something you either don't want or can't do.

*other 5, not 2

The point is chloe, my job is largely nothing to do with minutes and agendas and meetings. It is not something I am accustomed to doing. It is like asking a landscape gardener or a florist to take minutes and expect them to know what they're doing. My job is practical and hands-on. I am rarely in that kind of environment so I am like a fish out of water. If some of the other non-clinical people round that table were asked to follow me on a ward round and take notes while I took a history from a patient they wouldn't know the important points or how to format the notes in way we are trained to do. I wouldn't expect them to feel comfortable doing it. So similarly, I am not familiar with the "conventions" of minute taking "agendas" etc etc and all the other conventions of office based/corporate environments.

And also I appreciate that many of you are saying "well done" for refusing, but at the time I wasn't trying to prove a point at all - I was just not comfortable doing it as I didn't know what I was doing in that context!

I think you are being a bit precious and sensitive OP.

Minute taking is a horrible task but IMO the people who are best at taking minutes in relation to their work are those same people.

As a former PA I used to be asked to take engineering minutes on occasion. Having absolutely no interest in north sea oil drilling and no real technical know how that was very difficult and I didn't do too well.

I suggested one of the engineers took minutes and it worked very well. Concise and intelligent minute taking. It was a male engineer btw.

Exactly mcsporran - doctors take notes for other doctors usually. In a departmental meeting which involved some discussion on management, business and administrative issues, would it not be more appropriate for a staff member from the admin team to take the minutes?

Also, how embarrassed would your boss have been if the other two also said no. It would make him look and feel like he hadn't got a grip on his workforce.

Well, if he can't deal appropriately with the absence of the properly trained and experienced secretary, then he DOESN'T have a grip on his workforce. And that's not the OP's fault or problem.