To be asked to take minutes?

[Bottlesoflove]

I went to a monthly meeting I had not attended before, I am in a professional role and I work in a team of three, with two other male colleagues (all of the same "rank"). All three of us were there. My boss said the secretary couldn't come so could I take minutes? I had never been to one of these meetings before so not aware of the "format" they usually take, plus I have never taken minutes before, plus I didn't know the names of many of the people in the room... so I said "oh I don't know, not sure I would do a great job, maybe x or y could do it?" (My two other male colleagues - both been in the job slightly longer and would have attended this meeting before). At which point my boss said begrudgingly "don't worry I'll do it" and made me feel bad for making a senior do it. My two male colleagues just sat there.

Am I reading too much into this, or is there a hint of everyday sexism here? I was one of the only females there. It seemed he would rather make a big point of doing it himself than asking another professional male to do it, even though they were junior to him...🤔

If I go to a meeting of admins (so all the same level) and we want to allocate minutes, we would ASK the whole group if anyone wanted to volunteer. Not directly assume someone would. It's really rude. Then if no one volunteered we would probably go on the basis of 'well x did it last time, could y do it and then z will next time' kind of conversation.

So based on that yeah it's sexist

Yes, well done indeed for saying no, although please don't do yourself down by saying "Not sure I would do a great job" (can you imagine a man ever saying that?). Much better to say something along the lines of "I lack the necessary skills" or "I've never been trained in minute-taking".

In my last job we would all take turns to take the minutes, and that meant everyone from CEO to most junior staff member.

Yes it was sexism. It has happened to me on more occasions than i can remember in my very male dominated industry. Along with "can you just type this up...?" Now that I'm very old more senior I just laugh and say "did you ask me because I'm a woman?"

Oh this pisses me off, big style.

I'm good at minutes - I use a consistent format, always check actions and make sure that we've agreed target completion dates. I'm happy to minute the meetings that I've agreed to, but I really hate being put on the spot at other meetings where I am not a regular attendee. Most often because "you're good at minutes so you can do these" - erm, no I don't think so. As PP have said, it can be time consuming to collate them and ensure everything is correct. I have enough of my own work to do!

My response when asked is that I don't have time to collate the minutes after the meeting and as I am not a regular attendee it would be better for someone else to take on this task. If pushed - "Oh but you're so much better at it", I have nicely but firmly pointed out that the only way to get better at something is to practice! I did once - jokily - ask if it was a coincidence that the only woman in the room was being asked to take minutes. They backed off sharpish after that.

Yes it's a good skill to learn, but you shouldn't be pigeon-holed. Minute taking doesn't require a vagina.

I don't know how people can say it is sexism, yes it might be but it might be normal for the newest member of the team to get this job if normal minute taker is absent. I think the attitude to secretaries is sexist. I have rarely worked in an environment where minute taking was a secretary's job and as someone else said taking minutes gives you a lot of influence. Taking minutes shouldn't just be writing down what everyone says and you were at the meeting anyway so couldn't have been learning something else.

Yeah thanks verbena, but even though I have children, I still have no interest in joining "committees", so again minute-taking is not a skill I want to, or have time to learn, or will be if any use to me in my work or personal life.

There are oodles of other skills that I want to, but don't have time to, improve in work. I have a skills log as long as your arm that I need to get signed off and struggle to get the time with the sheer pressure we are under in the hospital. Minute-taking is very far down my list of priorities. Not saying that it is not a useful and valuable skill in some settings. But my job is clinical, I spend very little time in meetings, and not do I want to.

A hospital isn't likely to pigeon hole a doctor as a fulltime minute taker!

Agree your boss was sexist. Your response was reasonable. If it occurs again I would take the minutes but be clear it should be someone else the following meeting.

I think the don't make the tea, don't take the minutes advice is not that cut and dried though. I've worked mainly in male dominated environments and there are as ever shades of grey. Make the tea if that always fall to the most junior member of staff. Finally makes some great points about how minute taking can work to your advantage and similar applies to tea. You can use it to have a brief conversation with people who would otherwise maybe not make the time.

A hospital isn't likely to pigeon hole a doctor as a fulltime minute taker!

It doesn't matter - its considered by most men to be a subservient role and its also a role which prevents the OP participating fully in the discussion. And I have absolutely seen professional women sidelined over time because the perception of them becomes more 'helper' rather than 'leader.

"You could find someone to shadow in a meeting you don't need to attend and see how it's done."

This did make me laugh. I didn't even get a proper induction/shadowing period for my own job as a doctor due to staff shortages/pressure of service provision! But yet I am expected to find the time to teach myself how to do somebody else's job too!

Did I not mention I am a doctor, working in a hospital? Do you watch the news? Would you rather spend an extra hour waiting to see a doctor because I am in a meeting learning to take minutes when I hardly even ever attend meetings as part of my job?! 👍

I've worked mainly in male dominated environments and there are as ever shades of grey. Make the tea if that always fall to the most junior member of staff.

I don't think its that grey - my views on this have hardened over the years seeing good women gradually sidelined due to the perceptions created by them being 'too helpful'.

Its easy to say 'make the tea if its always the most junior' but (a) the most junior is more likely to be a woman (b) when women make the tea it is perceived differently.

When we have clients coming in for instance I will not let the junior women do these tasks because clients assume they are secretarial. If the junior men do these tasks they make no such assumptions so its really not equal.

There's a reason why so many secretaries out there are women: because we do a hell of a better job than men! Women are more focused, organised and multitasking than any men.
Women are better at managing, taking notes, organising thoughts/conversations, etc

Seriously?!!!!!!!

I would have actually not minded one bit about making the tea. I make an excellent brew. Minutes? Nope. Not my bag. Don't know what I'm doing and my vagina doesn't change that.

Your boss was being sexist in asking the one woman round the table to take the minutes, and unreasonable and unprofessional in asking someone who'd not attended that meeting before to take the minutes. For a start, people attending meetings together regularly start to talk in shorthand, so it's not always clear what they're talking about.

Whenever we tackle sexist, unreasonable behaviour, we start to feel we've been unreasonable ourselves, and we should stop it.

Women are so much better at taking minutes and anyway it's a useful skill for all the community groups you will join on becoming a mother?! Oh, give me strength!!

OP you dealt with this perfectly. Please continue to fight the corner for junior Drs and ignore such sexist bullshit.

I worked in a mainly male environment, police, and men did minutes as much as women and typed up reports, made tea. I think the only things they were really sexist about was if a woman with a baby/young child was arrested they would expect a young female officer to know how to look after them until they were collected. Used to make me laugh as very often there would be lots of dads there and an 18 year old female pro con who didn't know which end was which and it would still be assumed she would know what to do. Minutes were equal opportunities.

When my husband was a Chief Inspector he always liked to take the minutes, they tended to reflect his view of the world.

You did the right thing, bottles.

Not all women make good secretaries or minute takers and I can't believe anyone actually believes that. Years ago I worked as a secretary and was repeatedly sacked from jobs because I wasn't organised enough. I had a few incidents of minutes that didn't make sense because I was so bad at writing them (as well as spilling coffee due to clumsiness). I was fine once I moved into another career!

When my husband was a Chief Inspector he always liked to take the minutes, they tended to reflect his view of the world.

Heh, I'd have to plead guilty of doing this at times. Strategic control of the minutes when dealing with third parties can sometimes result in the opposite of co opting

Yes perpetual I did think that! Trust me I am not the PTA/WA type! 😉

Just as a pp I never make tea and I never take minutes.

I would have declined to take the minutes but I wouldn't have assumed I was asked because I was female. 🤷🏻‍♀️. I would have thought it was because of another reason - maybe because they thought you would be less involved in some parts of the discussion or perhaps because you were new. Perhaps it was the boss's way of showing his confidence in you and his desire to show that your presence is important..... who knows?
If I was a Doctor I wouldn't think people looked down on me because I was female.

*WI.

See, can't type for shit! 😂

Duotwo - nothing could be further from the truth. You would not believe some of the sexism I have experienced in work, especially as I had a child during med school. Some specialities are like an old boys club.