To be asked to take minutes?

[Bottlesoflove]

I went to a monthly meeting I had not attended before, I am in a professional role and I work in a team of three, with two other male colleagues (all of the same "rank"). All three of us were there. My boss said the secretary couldn't come so could I take minutes? I had never been to one of these meetings before so not aware of the "format" they usually take, plus I have never taken minutes before, plus I didn't know the names of many of the people in the room... so I said "oh I don't know, not sure I would do a great job, maybe x or y could do it?" (My two other male colleagues - both been in the job slightly longer and would have attended this meeting before). At which point my boss said begrudgingly "don't worry I'll do it" and made me feel bad for making a senior do it. My two male colleagues just sat there.

Am I reading too much into this, or is there a hint of everyday sexism here? I was one of the only females there. It seemed he would rather make a big point of doing it himself than asking another professional male to do it, even though they were junior to him...🤔

As an earlier poster said, NEVER do this the first few times youre in a meeting otherwise you'll be trapped in a perception of "we three doctors meeting, and youre there too to take the minutes."
It would be very difficult to have your opinion taken as seriously as the other if youre also "minutes lady".

Definitely. Yes minutes are a skill but they are 1 also hard to do well n, 2. Make it much harder to contribute as you are thinking of two things at once, and 3. Often allocated to junior staff. I tell all junior staff to expect to be asked for notes at any meeting so if they haven't been taking any more fool them.

Fuck that Littleredhood, I am a woman and take shocking minutes. Because minute taking is a skill that you learn, not something you get because you have a vagina. My male boss had to teach me how to take minutes. He took excellent minutes because he had worked in the civil service where he had been taught how to do it.

OP you did the right thing. Taking minutes is shit and if I was running the meeting I would have reluctantly done them myself, or asked everyone present if anyone minded. I wouldn't just single out a female. To do that is sexist, whether conscious or unconscious.

Basically I felt uncomfortable doing it because it is not something I'm used to doing. Yes it is an important job and therefore I wouldn't want to mess it up or miss anything important.

It may not seem a big deal to those working in a more clerical setting, but then again I feel comfortable walking in to a ward to assess and treat an acutely unwell patient. That is where my skill set lies, and I wouldn't expect a secretary to be comfortable doing that, so why should I want to/be expected to be able to take minutes?

Of course the assumption it was sexism is predictable, but would it have been sexism if he'd asked one of the men?

If it was your first time then you're likely to learn more from minute-taking as opposed to passively listening. Minutes are usually taken in chronological order so knowing the format of the meeting (was there no agenda) makes no difference.

Littlered are you for real?

Women aren't naturally more able at that kind of thing. What a load of rubbish.

There is an argument to be had that women are expected to be better at that kind of thing because we're socialised to be... but we're not naturally better at it by virtue of being female!

As the newest member of a team I'd be embarrassed to take minutes in case I forgot someone's name - would make much more sense for a well-seasoned member of the team to take the notes.
Silly suggestion of the boss for you to do it. Sexist or not, your response was justified.

...and also the reason that secretaries are mainly women is an overhang from the mid-20th century when secretary was the highest post a woman could aspire to because all the men were doing the "real" work

In my point of view he asked you to do the minutes because women are BETTER at the task than men, not because he values you less. It's not a shaming task to do. There's a reason why so many secretaries out there are women: because we do a hell of a better job than men! Women are more focused, organised and multitasking than any men.

Er, what? Are you actually saying as though you meant it that all women are better at taking notes of meetings than all men? Because that is simply crazy talk. It's an admin skill and there's no reason a doctor should be particularly good at it even if she doesn't have a penis to get in the way of her pen

Btw the most efficient secretary I ever met (and I met a lot of them over 30 years in the civil service) was a man.

I once attended a meeting and afterwards was asked if I could write up the minutes as I had taken notes.

I politely explained that I had been writing my shopping list 😂

As for Of course the assumption it was sexism is predictable, but would it have been sexism if he'd asked one of the men? - the whole point was, he didn't

witty, knowing the format of the meeting is extremely important for minute taking. Some people are really fussy about the format the minutes need to take. And even without fussiness you need to know how it will play out in terms of points being discussed, whether people are likely to return to points, how informal the discussion is etc.

Minute taking is hard if you're going to do it properly.

"There's a reason why so many secretaries out there are women: because we do a hell of a better job than men! Women are more focused, organised and multitasking than any men.
Women are better at managing, taking notes, organising thoughts/conversations, etc."

....And that's why secretaries are so highly paid, right? because those skills are so highly valued by men.

I think you did the right thing, op - if I read your post correctly, you didn't so much refuse to do it as politely explain why you thought that you may not be the best person to do it that day?
If your boss had a genuine (non-sexist) reason for thinking you should do it rather than the men, he could have replied with those reasons.

Very often when put on the spot like that we look back after the event and wish we'd said/done something different. Well in this case I think your response was perfect.

btw: I used to take a lot of minutes, and am terrible with names so in a big meeting I used to sketch out a little "map" of the table and note down initials during the introductions part of the meeting.
Then I just surreptitiously checked my map if I wasn't sure of the name of the speaker during a meeting.

I'd be tempted to casually ask colleagues if every meeting has minutes and, if so, if there's a rota or something like that for minute-taking. If they look blank or say 'Oh yes, last time girlname did it and before that othergirlname did it', then you'll have an opportunity to see how the sexist land lies.

My money's on 'I am too senior to do this. I need a subordinate. I feel uncomfortable asking the men to do something this minor. Oh look, a woman - perfect' as your supervisor's thought process......

Completely with you OP, I'd have done the same. I work in a very male dominated industry where it's usually the junior/graduate who take minutes. I am neither and would refuse.

There may have been an agenda witty, but seeing as, you know, I was on the ward treating patients and not glued to a desk (don't even have one) I may not have read it... I expect several men turn up to meetings without reading the agenda and no one bats an eyelid.

I must be a SHIT woman then as I am disorganised and rubbish at admin - trust me I would have made a proper gash job at those minutes. Apparently I'm not a bad doctor though.

I am a secretary/PA and take minutes but I had to learn this and from experience not everyone is very good at it. It's time consuming and I also would object to taking minutes to a new meeting with no warning. If I do have to do them for the first time (Because it's part of my job) I insist on having copies of previous meeting mins in advance to read before I will do it. Even as experienced as i am, it is horrible taking blind minutes, even more so when you have to contribute to the meeting. YANBU

Yup, sexism. I had similar, I was at a board meeting to present in my marketing capacity as Marketing Manager and was asked to fetch the coffee and take the minutes. I was young and a wee bit scared and said yes, and was then critiqued in my appraisal on my minute taking abilities.

By this point I was quite hacked off, and did actually point out that during my marketing degree and subsequent post grads I hadn't learnt to take minutes. And that it wasn't part of my job.

Good for you OP. I have recently resigned from a voluntary minutes-taking post (after a long time) and they have struggled to get a replacement. Whenever they talk about who is going to do it you can see that most of the men have just tuned out - nothing to do with them, you see!

I have been taken to being late to meetings after being put on the spot and being asked to do the minutes at the start of one meeting. Didn't have any choice but was greeted with "oh you are sweet!" when I reluctantly picked up my pen as if I had offered.

They are all lovely people, but if they weren't all so pedantic (eg highlighting corrections of unimportant typos so that I have to get the minutes re-signed etc) I would not have resigned in the first place.

Thank you pookie, please believe I am in no way trying to belittle what you do, I really don't think I could do it! There were a sea of faces around that table and even after intros i couldn't remember their names! Apart from the bits of the meeting I was directly involved in, there were other topics I really wasn't following at all that were obviously things that we being revisited from the last meeting. I am glad I said no tbh!

Men don't just not bother to volunteer, in my experience if on a rota they won't bother actually writing up any minutes afterwards if they don't fancy it, with none of the consequences that a woman would face.

littlered, you are joking, I hope. No one gender is more or less 'focused, organised and multitasking' than the other, nor is one gender better at 'managing, taking notes, organising thoughts/conversations, etc.' These qualities are not determined by one's sexual organs.

Did you explain afterwards your reasoning for not taking the minutes?
Otherwise your boss would surely just think you were being arsed.
I'd do a quick email and just explain that you weren't being difficult.

Minute taking is a good skill to have though....I only did it once or twice at work and I was an admin officer! However, since leaving to have the kids, I've needed it much more as I joined community committees that needed them. You could find someone to shadow in a meeting you don't need to attend and see how it's done. It's not hard and everybody kind of tweaks them to suit themself but there is a general format always a good skill to have....no matter what your 'rank' is.