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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Welsh wedding invitation.

653 replies

Spikeyplant · 18/04/2017 22:39

Just as it says in the title really.

My DH has a significantly younger relative who is getting married this summer. We have just received an invitation to the wedding, written entirely in Welsh. Neither DH or I speak Welsh and the bride and groom are well aware of this.

I am totally cool with somebody who grew up in a Welsh first language family wanting to celebrate their wedding in their language. However I can't help feeling it is a bit rude to send out invitations in a language many guests can't understand without even a short note in a mutually spoken language.

AIBU?

OP posts:
car5ys · 20/04/2017 21:52

Gwenhwyfar my DD would have trouble trouble with translation as she has never studied French. I'm not surprised at the attitudes! We have a place in Wales and it has taken almost 10 years for us to be "accepted". My OH family is Welsh and my DD has a Welsh name and yet we have had endless comments about how the English should stay in England. There are a lot of Welsh flags flown and when I mentioned flying the English flag was told our place would probably get torched!!! We have some lovely friends there and have been invited to a wedding (invite in English) but still get the odd nasty comments about our perceived nationalities but I no longer retaliate. My DD has a large group of Polish friends who all speak in English when she is with them as they seem it impolite to talk and get not understand. She is beginning to understand many words but would not understand any written words. I think I would just ring and say sorry don't understand the invite as my Welsh is poor (non existent) so can you confirm the details Wink

car5ys · 20/04/2017 22:03

Deem it impolite and her not understand.....Fat thumbs Grin

GreatFuckability · 20/04/2017 22:28

Well car5ys (good name choice btw!) I can promise you in all my years married to an english man in wales there has been precisely one moron who made comment about going 'back home' and we've never had our house torched, even when we flew an English flag outside during the world cup (i did sort of want to burn down my own house, but hes infected my children with english football..).

Cococrumble · 20/04/2017 22:30

Jesus H Christ is it actually worth getting worked up about? surely the normal train of thought would be "oh lovely! A wedding invitation! " or "bollocks! Another bloody wedding!" Regardless of the language the invitation is written in?

I genuinely don't understand some people's need to be offended? Confused if I wanted to snub someone or make a dig at their husband inviting them to my wedding wouldn't really be the way to go about it..

My daughter is receiving welsh medium education, I'm now deciding whether to get the arse about the fact her homework is in welsh even though I don't speak it 🙄 It's all about me after all..

2010Aussie · 20/04/2017 22:32

It's an unusual issue with Welsh because it's one of the few languages where a large proportion of the native speakers of school age and above also speak English well. (OK, Dutch is also a bit like that) In my experience, a lot of Welsh speaking teenagers talk a sort of hybrid language amongst themselves and DP's niece & nephew went through a phase of only ever speaking English at home because they were trying to annoy their parents (the language was the least of it)

SatelliteCity said "There's this idea that because you can speak English, speaking any other language in the presence of an English speaker is somehow rude or deliberately exclusionary"

No it's about good manners and being inclusive. It's a totally different situation for Welsh speakers to converse amongst themselves in a pub say - nobody would expect that to stop immediately non Welsh speakers walked in but imagine if you were invited to join a group of people all of whom were conversing in a language you did not understand but all of whom could speak at least some of a different language that you could. And nobody made any effort to involve you or help you understand what was being said. You wouldn't feel great about it, would you? Wherever you were. Recently, I joined a group of Finnish students who immediately switched to English for my benefit. When I thanked them, they replied "Well, of course we would!"

Sorry, but this is a bit of a hobby horse of DP's and his family's

PS I always enjoy the reaction of Welsh speakers when I switch from speaking English in an English accent to Welsh in a Welsh one. Some of them are sometimes so surprised (or well-mannered) they don't even correct my bad grammar or vocabulary.

user1473008242 · 20/04/2017 23:06

Use Google I have to living in Wales and a non speaker stop moaning about it

spiney · 20/04/2017 23:39

Jeez.

Choose differences! Choose diversity. Choose a challenge. Choose broadening experiences. Choose getting out of your comfort zone. Choose something new. Choose learning new stuff. Choose to see the good side. Go to the wedding. Choose to enjoy it.

Or don't. ( That'll teach them)

SatelliteCity · 21/04/2017 06:21

I said "There's this idea that because you can speak English, speaking any other language in the presence of an English speaker is somehow rude or deliberately exclusionary"

Aussie said No it's about good manners and being inclusive.

But that's the same thing as being rude or deliberately exclusionary?

You're using very convenient examples that don't reflect the truth of social complexity.

We may both agree that being asked to change language simply for sharing the same air as a non-Welsh-speaking stranger is ridiculous (not that this stops people - "I walked into the pub and they all switched to Welsh" is a cliche for a reason) but where you draw the line is hazy. Hence my further exampled in my post. What about situations where a mixed language social group subdivides itself? Do three Welsh speakers have to hold a conversation in English because they're seated at a wedding table with three English speakers holding another conversation?

I was also trying to make the point that slipping back into Welsh is often automatic because context is a powerful linguistic prompt.

The point about Welsh speakers often being fluent in English while the reverse is not true is exactly the point I was trying to make when I said that lead to assumptions it was just as easy for Welsh speakers to speak English as it is for them to speak Welsh.

It also has the effect of punishing Welsh further for being a minority language in the first place. Speaking it is seen as unimportant because another option exists. Which leads us back to a couple perhaps wanting to send a clear message with their wedding invitation about the default language of the day.

As learning and correction, I would never do that unless asked. I am always deeply grateful and impressed when someone has gone to the trouble of learning any Welsh. I think that really would be rude.

Morewashingtodo · 21/04/2017 06:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AcademicOwl · 21/04/2017 07:23

Erm. OP, why can't you just phone them & have a chat?
It could go like this;
OP 'we got you beautiful invite yesterday; I just wanted to check some details because we couldn't read the Welsh'
B&G 'oh no! We accidentally missed posting your translation' or 'you can't read Welsh? Seriously? Don't bother coming!'
If you do it nicely, without criticism (as they might have thought it was nice to send out exclusively Welsh invites), then a chat might clear all this up. But offended? No.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/04/2017 07:32

"if however we all got out of said lift and went into an office for a meeting, I would expect it to be conducted in English as otherwise I would be being excluded from conversation that I should have an expectation of being included in."

If you worked in an office where everyone except you speaks Welsh and all meetings have to be in English just for your benefit, wouldn't it be better to learn Welsh rather than change the office language? Refusing to would be rude in my opinion.
Obviously not an option for the OP who's only visiting.

Pearlsofmadness · 21/04/2017 07:37

OP, sorry but I can't believe you'd be offended.
As someone who is in the middle of planning a wedding, I know full well how bloody expensive they are and how much faff they are to organise! Perhaps they couldn't afford bi-lingual invites or meant to give you a follow-up call but just haven't had time. Perhaps they are waiting for you to call and confirm arrangements with them because they are very busy and don't have time to run around trying to please everyone.

Either way, it's not rude to receive a wedding invitation- be grateful they've invited you. As I said before, weddings are really bloody expensive and if I knew someone I invited had gone on MN AIBU to call me rude for asking them to be part of their special day, you can bet I'd tell them not to bother turning up!

Natasha5 · 21/04/2017 08:38

Definitely rude! I'm English living in a Welsh speaking area and have been in similar situations to you. I would reply in Chinese!!

Broccolirevolution · 21/04/2017 08:46

It's not rude. I'm horrified at all the people saying 'respond in swahili/mandarin / klingon'

Unless you actually live your lives in those languages then you are completely rude for considering that.

There is a big wide world where some people don't speak English or even consider speaking English as part of their day.

They speak Welsh. They are having a Welsh wedding. You are supposed to be their family. If you can't respect the language they speak then I can't imagine you'll have a good time at their wedding anyway.

I'm not Welsh, I haven't even been to Wales and some of the responses here give me the rage!

Once you've sorted the Brexit, these English-English people can focus on getting the rest of their island in order.

TinfoilHattie · 21/04/2017 08:50

We had people from Germany, Switzerland and Japan at our wedding. We sent invitations in English, but the crucial difference is that all of our guests spoke English!

We were invited back to the weddings of the people in Germany and Switzerland and both the invitations arrived in German which we don't speak, but with a very lovely handwritten note on each occasion in English with a translation of the details. We accepted both times. On both occasions we were the only non-German speakers and everyone went out of their way to be so welcoming and lovely, my German is literally three phrases but after a few glasses of wine I was having great conversations with everyone.

And German weddings sometimes have a cake buffet! AMAZING! Schwarzveldekirschtorte is one of my few German words now :-)

MyGastIsFlabbered · 21/04/2017 09:35

In the kindest possible way, it's not all about you OP.

Natasha5 · 21/04/2017 09:59

Yes shocking. English would of been so more useful.

Nessie71 · 21/04/2017 10:23

Natasha5 if your living in a welsh area how about learning to speak welsh.

ArcheryAnnie · 21/04/2017 10:30

Definitely rude! I'm English living in a Welsh speaking area and have been in similar situations to you. I would reply in Chinese!!

So, English person in living in Wales is utterly horrified at Welsh-speaking Welsh people living in Wales and having a wedding in Wales for writing their wedding invitations in Welsh, but is utterly gleeful at the idea of writing to them in Chinese, presumably to make a point about incomprehensibility.

And posters here have tried to claim that it's Welsh-speakers who have a bit of a chip on their shoulders, are attention-seeking, are "trying to make a point", etc...

Lovelymess · 21/04/2017 10:48

Bloody Welsh speaking today their own language Hmm how rude lol?!

Rioja123 · 21/04/2017 11:23

This isn't the point!

TittyGolightly · 21/04/2017 11:30

English would of been so more useful.

To be fair, your grasp of English appears patchy.

ChaiTeaTaiChi · 21/04/2017 11:30

Natasha5 if your living in a welsh area how about learning to speak welsh

Yes indeed. Or even better English?

DoorwayToNorway · 21/04/2017 11:49

This thread proves why Welsh should be taught in English schools. In most countries that have more than one language, both languages are taught. But in England you have idiots treating Welsh as if it's a novelty language like Elvish and Klingon. Hundreds of years and nothing changes.
Go or don't go, it's great that the young generation are helping the Welsh language grow again.
When we got married we printed some invitations in English and some in DH's language. Maybe they did this and you just got the wrong invitation. Just call or contact them and say "I'd love to come but I don't understand Welsh, could you just give me the details please". Not a big deal is it?

SherbrookeFosterer · 21/04/2017 11:50

If you have an iphone there is an app where you use the camera and it translates for you.

I did it on a packet of barley I bought from my local Polish deli - I thought I was buying risotto rice! Made a nice Krupnik with it so it didn't go to waste.