Welsh wedding invitation.

[Spikeyplant]

Just as it says in the title really.

My DH has a significantly younger relative who is getting married this summer. We have just received an invitation to the wedding, written entirely in Welsh. Neither DH or I speak Welsh and the bride and groom are well aware of this.

I am totally cool with somebody who grew up in a Welsh first language family wanting to celebrate their wedding in their language. However I can't help feeling it is a bit rude to send out invitations in a language many guests can't understand without even a short note in a mutually spoken language.

AIBU?

[SatelliteCity]

Aussie we're talking at cross purposes. You're talking about people refusing to speak English in a direct conversation (which I've never seen and agree would be strange). I'm talking about the notion that Welsh speakers should switch to English just in case someone else in the vicinity decides they want to join in. If you agree that it's wrong to talk Welsh to other Welsh speakers at any wider event where non Welsh speakers may be present, then that's where we would need to start considering the fact that would make it much harder for minority languages to survive and, yes, probably cause some defensive resentment from Welsh speakers. But I'm not sure that's the point you were trying to make...?

To run with your shop analogy, here's the difference. There are a lot of people who would go to Finland, walk into a shop where some salespeople are talking in Finnish, ask a question in English and be thrilled to get a response because they don't expect it. In the same situation on Wales, the very fact the salespeople were speaking Welsh would lead to suspicion that they were secretly gossiping, particularly if they went back to their conversation after serving the customer.

Of course not all or even most would react this way but it definitely happens - just look at some of the posts on this thread about how speaking Welsh makes you "smug". :(

[GreatFuckability]

The benefits of being bilingual, in whatever language are clear and well researched. as a linguistics student my lecturer (an Austrian, teaching in English, and with a decent grasp of welsh, french and italian) had extensively studied bilingualism and he said it was one of the biggest advantages you can give to a child.

[OvariesBeforeBrovaries]

Great I think that's what confuses me when parents say they don't want their children learning Welsh (not wanting full Welsh medium education is understandable, but not wanting any Welsh at all). It's an easy way to become bilingual and get the benefits from that at a young age. I pick up languages very easily and I'm certain that's because of becoming bilingual so young.

[ThisisrealityGreg]

There are a lot of people who would go to Finland, walk into a shop where some salespeople are talking in Finnish, ask a question in English and be thrilled to get a response because they don't expect it. In the same situation on Wales, the very fact the salespeople were speaking Welsh would lead to suspicion that they were secretly gossiping, particularly if they went back to their conversation after serving the customer.

Absofuckinglutely. Wales is NOT in England but some people don't seem to grasp this.

[welshweasel]

As an aside (because it seems like we are all banging our heads against a brick wall trying to get our point across) is there anyone on here who has experience of Welsh medium education when neither parent speaks Welsh? I need some advice before a house move!

[GreatFuckability]

totally agree ovaries, bilingualism has been a life saver for my son with dyslexia and other learning difficulties. it gives him extra words when hes struggling, it gives him a language that is far less complicated to read/write that english, it gives him choices and a brain with neural pathways that can work around problems.

[SatelliteCity]

welshweasel yes I do if you have any questions? My non Welsh speaking parents sent me to Welsh medium schools. I ended up fluent very quickly - don't even remember the learning process tbh. It never affected my English language skills and I've always been very glad I could speak Welsh (even when I was being a naughty, rebellious child and speaking - gasp! - English on the playground). It's helped me get jobs. I also left Wales and didn't use my Welsh for many years and it all came back to me very quickly.

Can't speak to how my parents felt about it or if they felt left out of my education (though all letters home/parents evenings etc were bilingual) but I've always been grateful they made that choice for me.

Happy to answer any further questions.

[NotDavidTennant]

"Not at all. If you go shopping in Cardiff you walk past thousands of people. It makes sense that some of those would be speaking Welsh. 11% doesn't mean you never hear it!"

I didn't say you would never hear it, but if you're a non-Welsh student you will rarely ever hear it unless either you happen to have Welsh-speaking friends or you specifically search out opportunities to hear it.

If you're a parent I accept you might hear it more often due to the growing popularity of Welsh-medium education. (Indeed the last time I heard Welsh spoken in a public place in Cardiff it was a mother and children.)

[SatelliteCity]

NotDavid I was out in Cardiff last week on a walk across the barrage and heard two different groups speaking Welsh. I wouldn't say it's common but I probably hear it on the street on a weekly basis. I suspect people who aren't Welsh speakers don't necessarily pick up on it as frequently - if you just hear a word or two as you're walking past it might well not register as familiar.

[Willyoujustbequiet]

Stretched

Do you mean to be so rude?

Shock horror people can have different experiences. It does not mean my dp has his head up his ass.

Unbelievable.

[OverByYer]

Will your husband and I seem to have had the same experience and lack of exposure to Welsh.
Not sure why some posters are getting so annoyed by it.
No where have I said Welsh shouldn't be taught or spoken.
My personal view is that it shouldn't be compulsory at GCSE.

[SatelliteCity]

Over You didn't show up with an opinion about compulsory GCSE subjects, you showed up with an aggressively worded post about how Welsh was being "shoved down your throat" (despite also not speaking "a word" of it so it can't have been a very successful campaign).

You very clearly indicated you were annoyed by Welsh, so I think it's pretty clear why other posters are annoyed by your opinion. I also suspect you know that but painting your opponents as the ones who are overreacting is a useful deflection from the hyperbole of your original post.

[TittyGolightly]

I don't believe for one second that anyone that's been in Wales for more than 6 months couldn't - if required to due to being held at gunpoint, say - recall 10 Welsh words.

[OverByYer]

Why does it bother you so much Titty?

[OverByYer]

Hmmm satellite I don't recall being aggressive?
I haven't accused anyone of being dim or of having their head shoved up their arse.

[GreatFuckability]

I agree titty unless you willfully avoid it, there is no way you couldn't know a few words.
I spent less than a week in Denmark and Sweden with my kids, and even my couldn't-be-less-interested-in-anything-thats-not-an-ipad 11 year old picked up 4 or 5 words (please, thank you, hello, goodbye etc).

If after an entire lifetime in a country you know NO words then that says something about you as a person, I think.

[OverByYer]

Of course I know a few words. I just choose not to speak them.

As I said, can't avoid it.

[BestIsWest]

An example where neither parent speaks Welsh - Best friends DCs were educated through medium of Welsh The DH grew up in England and neither parent speaks Welsh. The DD now teaches in Welsh in a Welsh medium primary.

[OverByYer]

Anyway I'm bowing out now as I can see that I annoy you.
Sadly nothing that you have said has made me feel any differently about speaking Welsh.
I have my views, you have yours.
Diolch

[BestIsWest]

Satellite City. Is beetroot nicer than ham?

[stretchedturtleneck]

I completely accept that not everyone can string the most basic sentence together in Welsh, or count to three, but I genuinely, genuinely can not comprehend how any Welsh person, raised in Wales, could not know a single word more than 'cwtch'.

Even OverByYer, who initially said they didn't know a word of Welsh, actually seems to know a good few words and phrases and is familiar with the national anthem.

I think saying that a Welsh person, raised in Wales, would to have their head up their ass to genuinely not know more than one word is completely fair. It doesn't sound believable to me, as illustrated by OverByYer.

[Gwenhwyfar]

"I suspect people who aren't Welsh speakers don't necessarily pick up on it as frequently - if you just hear a word or two as you're walking past it might well not register as familiar."

Absolutely. As a Welsh speaker I can even pick out people using English words but having a conversation in Welsh, so I'll hear someone say sori instead of sorry or saying the word just in the middle of a phrase and be able to tell they're speaking Welsh whereas some non-Welsh speakers might need to hear quite a few full sentences to realise.

[TittyGolightly]

What about words you see regularly though? Heddlu? Araf? Bws? Tafarn? Gwesty? Ysbyty? Croeso? They're generally with the English translation, so kinda hard impossible not to notice or know what they mean.

[SatelliteCity]

BestIsWest Stare deeply into Neil Kinnock's eyes!

[GreatFuckability]

Yes, over, I kinda thought you meant 'not interested' to a weirdly strong level rather than 'can't' speak any words. which as I said, says something about you as a person. Anyone who would be so willfully ignorant of their own country or any country/language is just anathema to me.