Welsh wedding invitation.

[Spikeyplant]

Just as it says in the title really.

My DH has a significantly younger relative who is getting married this summer. We have just received an invitation to the wedding, written entirely in Welsh. Neither DH or I speak Welsh and the bride and groom are well aware of this.

I am totally cool with somebody who grew up in a Welsh first language family wanting to celebrate their wedding in their language. However I can't help feeling it is a bit rude to send out invitations in a language many guests can't understand without even a short note in a mutually spoken language.

AIBU?

I want to reiterate that I think there's nothing at all wrong with them having the wedding in Welsh, or indeed having their invitations in Welsh - they're both the natural and uncontroversial choice. I think sending a Welsh invitation with no English covering note to non-Welsh speakers is rude, though. Perhaps, as some people have said, an accidentally rude oversight, but certainly rude if deliberate.

Out of interest: what if, after this wedding, the couple send the OP and her husband a thank you card entirely in Welsh? Surely we all agree that that's rude?

What exactly is RUDE about receiving an invite in another language though?
Thoughtless, perhaps, but how is it rude and/or offensive?
I still can't get my head around the fact that they're asking you to come to their wedding, presumably paying for your wedding breakfast/dinner drinks/evening meal (which costs £125 per head at my wedding) and that's considered rude and offensive?

This thread proves why Welsh should be taught in English schools. In most countries that have more than one language, both languages are taught. But in England you have idiots treating Welsh as if it's a novelty language like Elvish and Klingon. Hundreds of years and nothing changes.

England and Wales are two separate countries. England does not have more than one language; it's just English. Wales has Welsh and English (and only 19% of Welsh people actually speak Welsh).

There is simply no need for it to be taught in English schools.

"Would you feel the same if you'd been sent an invitation to a wedding in france, by french people, and it was in French."

As I understand, the majority of people over 25 in Wales don't speak more than very basic Welsh. Welsh tends to be a North Wales thing, and some regions of the country have not spoken Welsh for generations (or even never). There has been more of a push for school Welsh for younger people, though.

More people speak Scots than Welsh in the UK. It would be funny as fuck if they taught Scots in English schools. I love listening to my cousins speaking Doric but not sure I could manage it myself. Then you have British sign language, Sottish Gaelic, Irish, Cornish etc. So many languages to learn.

I actually learnt both Latin and Scottish Gaelic at school but can't remember much of either now. French, Spanish, Cantonese are probably more useful.

This is reminding me a lot of another thread which is about hosting - specifically in relation to food.

There is a lot of stress on the (supposed) responsibility of the hosts to behave in particular ways that will accommodate every conceivable need their guests might have.

But very little attention was paid to the responsibility of guests - or invitees.

I think if you receive an invitation - regardless of whether or not it is in your first language, your second language or another language where you need some help to translate it - your duty is to respond either with

A: Thank you I'd love to come
or
B: No thank you, I am unable to attend but I hope you have a splendid time.

In either case you have the option - if the invitation was not in your first language - of using some polite phrases from the host's chosen language in your reply.

OP, the invitation is not about you, it's about the inviter and their family. This is exactly the sort of thing my dad would do (send out a monolingual Welsh invitation), not to exclude or piss off anyone but to make a big historical 'we are still here, we are still strong' statement to the world.

Don't worry about it. Go and enjoy the wedding. Even if you don't understand the vows etc, you should be able to follow 😄 and have a lovely time. If you reject the invitation in the basis of the language of the invitation, you will simply be playing in to their hands and proving that the English are all imperialist language killing peeegs 😄

(PS I'm qualified to make the above statements: Welsh, Welsh speaker, Welsh educated, eisteddfods, blah blah)

*on

Choose differences! Choose diversity. Choose a challenge. Choose broadening experiences. Choose getting out of your comfort zone. Choose something new. Choose learning new stuff. Choose to see the good side. Go to the wedding. Choose to enjoy it.

I could not agree more.

And to those saying Welsh doesn't matter as much/is not comparable because only 19% of the country speak it - if you are in one of those areas that does then it is the majority language, those 19% are not scattered across the land. Plus it is a dying language and people are enormously proud of their heritage and don't want to lose it, want to pass it on.

And finally, OP if you're still reading, just ask them - why instantly take offence!? Why not just laugh and say 'you do know we can't understand a word'. This is PO at its highest level!!

The 19% statistic that keeps being quoted is starting to grate, mainly because I want to understand the evidence behind it. 19% of what? Just adults? Children? Does it refer to people who are fluent or people who have a basic understanding? What study or research found this? I also don't understand why Spread thinks posting the statistic repeatedly is helping in anyway.

If anything, the fewer people speak a language, the more important it is to try to keep it going - including through the medium of wedding invitations. The "only" 19% argument is a very weak one.

Wellies my FIL would also do that and good on him, why not. People are all too quick to be offended when it is the opposite of being about them.

As I understand, the majority of people over 25 in Wales don't speak more than very basic Welsh. Welsh tends to be a North Wales thing, and some regions of the country have not spoken Welsh for generations (or even never). There has been more of a push for school Welsh for younger people, though

Well, you understand incorrectly.
Many over 25s speak fluent Welsh. Many of us went to Welsh schools.
Think about what you are saying when you say that there are regions where Welsh has 'never' been spoken in Wales.....

But besides that, it was the majority language here until perhaps 3 generations ago when it was delibrately and methodically stamped out. the fact there are any welsh speakers, and a growing number of them in fact, is testament to how tenacious and proactive welsh speakers have had to be to preserve the language.

Greg I agree with you except on the idea that welsh is dying. It is not. it is actively growing. so the opposite of dying. which is a fantastic thing.

Erm, Welsh is absolutely not "just a North Wales thing".

I have seen Welsh people speaking Welsh to other Welsh speakers because that was their primary language (eg she thought in Welsh and learned Welsh before English). I have seen people who spoke Welsh to make a point in public (in Wales but it was their workplace in Rhyl so they were surrounded by non-Welsh speakers). And I have people like WelliesAndPyjamas discusses , which is obviously fine. They are Welsh people, living in Wales who are proud of their heritage.

The intent of an invitation purely in Welsh can really only be judged by decent knowledge of the sender. Personally I would go to a wedding held in Welsh but I would think twice if I thought there wouldn't be a word of English the entire day. "Bore da" and "Diolch" will only get you so far!

There is simply no need for it to be taught in English schools.

Spread, there's no "need" for French, Spanish, German or Latin to be taught in English schools, either, but most schools do teach two or three out of those four. Learning another language opens all sorts of doors - not just mercantile but cultural, too.

(I think all schools having a BSL option would be pretty useful, too.)

Welsh tends to be a North Wales thing

I am not Welsh and do not speak Welsh, so am prepared to be schooled by those who do - but I understand from my friend that not only is Welsh spoken in South Wales, it's very slightly different than that spoken in North Wales. (She speaks North Welsh and her kids speak South Welsh.)

If you worked in an office where everyone except you speaks Welsh and all meetings have to be in English just for your benefit, wouldn't it be better to learn Welsh rather than change the office language? Refusing to would be rude in my opinion.
Obviously not an option for the OP who's only visiting.

Who said I was refusing? Perhaps in this situation I'm visiting from another office, or have just transferred and my Welsh isn't great yet? Perhaps I have a grasp of the language but not enough to follow the intricacies of a meeting? There are many reasons why one person in a group may not speak the native language but if they have a need to follow the conversation, not just a want, and the only way that will happen is for everyone to speak another language it is common courtesy, never mind common sense, to speak in the language everyone understands.

When I worked in Spain, I first went over with a decent level of Spanish and could more than hold my own in a general conversation. When I first started working in the English Department of my school, they conducted the meeting in Spanish, when 90% of the participants were native Spaniards and the others were fluent ... halfway through the first meeting I was totally lost - the rapidfire Spanish, lots of different people talking, and the technical terms were just too much for me to cope with translating in an official setting where I needed all the information being discussed. Fortunately for me my colleagues all realised I couldn't yet keep up and offered to switch to English as they could all speak it to a fluent level.

They could have continued to converse in Spanish, as it was my responsibility to learn to speak Spanish in Spain after all, but they acknowledged that to do so purely on principle - when they could all speak in English fluently - would be counter productive as I wouldn't get the information I needed to do my job properly nor could I pass on my information clearly enough for them to action it, and the come back for that would be on the department as a whole, not just on me. Six months later and our meetings were more or less always held in Spanish because, by this point, I had enough of a technical grasp of the language to be able to understand everything ... but whenever any new teachers/guests/invited speakers/TEFL reps came to meetings we always asked them which language they would feel most comfortable in.

What exactly is RUDE about receiving an invite in another language though?
Thoughtless, perhaps, but how is it rude and/or offensive?

It's rude for a host to send an invite that they know the invitee won't be able to read (Google translate notwithstanding) as it comes across as a slight of "we're not bothered enough about you attending to even provide the information in a way you can understand. If you want to come to our event then you have to do all the work to facilitate your attendance." Especially for an invitation to a wedding where there is an expectation of the guest bringing a gift, it's rude to send an invite that suggests you're not fussed whether or not they attend as it looks a bit gift-grabby.

If you want someone to come to your event then it is your responsibility to ensure that the information is provided in a way they can understand. It would be one thing if a host sent an invite in Welsh and didn't know that their guest didn't speak the language, but if they know that the invite won't be understandable then they should also provide the information in another way too. Even if that's just a post it note attached to the official invite with: Wedding date: 12th of June; Service: 10am Holy Cross Church, Aberystwyth; Reception: 1pm Park Lodge Hotel

My DS and DD2 have both learnt Welsh as a second language. They use it as much day to day as I used the French I learnt at school. Half of many official documents I receive gets thrown away because I can't read it. Welsh language policy seems ineffective in some geographical areas where there appears to no longer be serious traction for the language. For example the second language in Wrexham after English is Polish. Those children and parents are not prioritising learning Welsh.

But besides that, it was the majority language here until perhaps 3 generations ago when it was delibrately and methodically stamped out. the fact there are any welsh speakers, and a growing number of them in fact, is testament to how tenacious and proactive welsh speakers have had to be to preserve the language

Fantastic post.

I don't know about rude, but it is certainly isn't very welcoming to English only speakers to send the invitation in Welsh with no translation. I would be tempted to just ignore it especially as weddings in Welsh with no translation can be quite boring.

ArcheryAnnie There's no need for Welsh to be taught because if you go to Wales, they're going to speak English.

French/Spanish/German etc. Is needed because chances are, they're not all going to speak English.

(Oh, and for whoever asked, the 19% figure is from the 2011 census.)

Most French /Spanish /German people speak better English than a lot of English people.