Welsh wedding invitation.

[Spikeyplant]

Just as it says in the title really.

My DH has a significantly younger relative who is getting married this summer. We have just received an invitation to the wedding, written entirely in Welsh. Neither DH or I speak Welsh and the bride and groom are well aware of this.

I am totally cool with somebody who grew up in a Welsh first language family wanting to celebrate their wedding in their language. However I can't help feeling it is a bit rude to send out invitations in a language many guests can't understand without even a short note in a mutually spoken language.

AIBU?

If you are invitinng people from Russia, Greece, Vietnam and Bangladesh should you translate your invite into all the languages?

But of you know people from Russia, Greece, Vietnam and Bangladesh, either you speak those languages (and they don't speak yours) in which case a note would be polite, or they speak your language (in which case it's not necessary).

To me it looks RUDE. She's making a dig at your husband probably?

I'd use Google translate to reply in Swahili

I'm Welsh so have some experience of this.
All Welsh invite usually indicates early on that it is a totally welsh ceremony etc which is of course the bride/grooms choice. If you don't speak the language they are very hard going.
Also expect to be excluded from lots of conversations as some like to make a point and not convert to English so you can join in. I've had that happen ALOT

It's a wedding invitation in Welsh - not the Rosetta Stone.

Surely, it is not that difficult to decipher.

I would love to go to a Welsh wedding I might hear somebody singing instead of the cat's melodeon I heard at the last wedding I was at

YABU.

It is their wedding. I have relatives whose first language is French, and should they choose to invite me to a wedding, I would expect an invite in French. Or if they remember me, to their uncle's inauguration, should he be elected President.

Bloody hell, how can you get through life if you're offended by an invitation in another language? Nuts.

Go if you want to, politely decline if not. But being offended is really, really weird.

Who cares? It's funny. The Welsh can be quite funny like the French - won't speak English! I'd reply in another language. Sorry that sounds just funny. x

The people complaining about Welsh people speaking Welsh in Wales(in the presence of English people) are probably the same people who expect the natives to speak English when they go abroad.

I think the OP is not being unreasonable, because it's one thing to speak Welsh to Welsh people in Wales, but if you have a group where everyone can speak one language, and only some know a second, why would you actively exclude some of the group by only conversing in the second language?

I say this as someone who lived in Spain for 10 years. I had many friends of various nationalities and we would always speak in a common language wherever possible. If there was a mixed group where everyone could speak English but only some could speak Spanish, we'd all speak in English; and when everyone could speak Spanish and only a few could speak English, we'd converse in Spanish because it's about being INCLUSIVE. I remember one time conversing in a bar in Barcelona in German with a Brazilian and French guy because it was the only common language all three of us shared. The Brazilian spoke Spanish but not French or English, the French guy spoke English but not Spanish or Portuguese and I can speak French and Spanish but not Portuguese yet somehow we discovered we all spoke German, so rather than have a relay conversation full of translations, or excluding one person, we spoke in the language we had in common, even though it was native to none of us.

I am English and when in Wales I don't mind the Welsh speaking Welsh why should I . It is no different than any other person speaking their native language in their own Country.

Its one thing if they are speaking to each other, but if they are speaking to you, or you are in the group and they know you don't understand and they can speak English, then it is rude. EG when I lived in Spain and family visited - when we went to restaurants I would translate things into English for them, and nine times out of ten the waiters would hear and automatically speak in English, or at least try. If they were struggling or there were complex requests I'd always switch to Spanish to help them out, but I appreciated the effort they made to speak a language that everyone understood.

Agh, I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall!

Need - I don't speak German. So I used a combination of a bit of gumption and google translate to get the gist of the invite. Not exactly rocket science

Congrats on your gumption, but the point of the thread isn't 'is it possible to translate an invitation written in another language', but more 'is it rude to send one to someone when you know they won't understand?'. Of course anyone could work out what it said, and hopefully manage to transcribe it correctly. Assuming they have access to the relevant resources of course.

And perhaps it wouldn't bother you - great. As it happens, it wouldn't massively bother me either, I'm a linguist, I enjoy different languages. But the point I'm trying to make is, why wouldn't you make it as easy as possible for your guests if you can?

And I agree with *melj1234´, I have been in this situation many times. It's just niceness and inclusion, surely?!

"the Welsh can be quite funny"

WTAF?

OP YANBU

I feel like I am reading a different thread to a lot of people, because it's not about being able to translate, or get the general gist of the invite or whatever, it's about the fact that the hosts have made absolutely no effort to make their "guest" feel welcomed and wanted at the party, and by sending the invite have actually made them feel even less welcome than if they had not been invited at all because it is clearly not something they can comprehend without effort.

Nobody is saying that the Bride and Groom should only be sending invites in English, if their native language and the language they use day to day is Welsh, but if they are going to invite people who don't speak Welsh (whether they're English, French, Russian or Chinese) it would be polite and considerate to send their invite however they like, but also provide a translation that the invitee can actually understand. Even if that meant that they got a beautiful ornate gilt edged, embossed, gold leaf invite on expensive cardstock in Welsh and an English translation printed on a bit of A4 printer paper folded up and shoved in the envelope too, it at least showed that the B&G cared enough to ensure their invitee understands the information.

My DD is 8, she was born in Spain and lived there till about 2 years ago when we returned to the UK ... at home, we conversed mostly in English as she was surrounded by Spanish all day every day and sometimes I just couldn't be bothered translating things all the time . She went to a local bi-lingual school where most children were Spanish but some were English, or were like us and had English parents. Whenever she had a party I would make up some invites in Spanish and some in English, depending on the child's native language. I could have only written invites in English as that's my native language, or only in Spanish as that is my DDs ... but then all that does is exclude people and why would I do that when the entire point of an invite is for the guest of honour to have a great day for the guests to feel like you actually want them to come?

I agree with those who say this is likely a clear indication that the ceremony will be in Welsh. In their place I would likely have scribbled a quick translation on notepaper, but I don't think it's terribly rude either.

I do think the fact this thread has run 17 pages says something about how oddly threatening some English people find Welsh. There's this idea that because you can speak English, speaking any other language in the presence of an English speaker is somehow rude or deliberately exclusionary. I think in many instances this stems from not having lived in a bilingual culture.

When you have a relationship with someone and you are used to speaking one language with them, it is really, really, really weird to switch to another. It feels very odd and "fake". In some cases - with elders - it can even feel disrespectful because of the cultural issues at play. So even in situations where it clearly isn't disrespectful, and where everyone is fine with - in theory - switching to English - it's WEIRD and it's very easy to switch back without thinking because that's what's natural.

I have a friend with whom I always speak Welsh. Her partner doesn't speak Welsh. When the three of us are together, I address him in English, and I speak English if it's a conversation we're all participating in. If we're sat at the table having a coffee and chatting and he's surfing the internet on the other side of the room, then we speak in Welsh. We're not trying to exclude him, but there's no need for both of us to feel awkward expressing ourselves just because he happens to be in the general vicinity.

And that's where the confusion comes in, I think. A lot of English people seem to assume the only reason for this behaviour is to secretly talk about others present. It's not.

The idea that everyone should speak English for the comfort of a single non-Welsh speaker is based on the assumption that it's equally easy for the Welsh speakers to switch to English. It isn't. So whose comfort do we prioritise?

The other problem is the fact that Welsh is a minority language. If it should never be spoken if anyone present can't understand it, then the places it can be spoken will be severely curtailed. It's effectively an assault on its survival. I know that's not the intention, but that's the effect.

Excuse me, re bilingual relationships with friends/ family ...

When I have received invitations in e.g. Italian: my friends/ family speak English, I don't speak Italian, they send me an invite in Italian, I am absolutely not offended. That is the same invite that everyone else is getting and I find it quite nice to get something in another language - I feel totally included in the event and I don't expect them to translate into other languages for my benefit. [I do sometimes have to remind them when they start to chat to me in Italian that I don't speak it ...!]

... and maybe you should learn a couple of Welsh congratulatory phrases I'm so sorry, I don't know what's come over me this evening

wellhonestly I love getting invites in other languages, but I have never had friends/family who have only ever sent an invite with no other note attached that either translates the main invite or summarises the key information in English (or at the very least have got in contact some other way, like FB/text/email to make sure we understood the invite)

But I'd like to think that my friends priority is that I feel like they want me to be there and so make it as easy as possible to come.

I think it's bad manners. DP speaks Welsh as his first language and uses it with his family. But he was brought up never to exclude non-Welsh speakers from the group. So when I first met the family, they all spoke English with me. Now I know enough Welsh to join in and only occasionally need to ask for a translation!

We went to a wedding (in UK) of some Polish friends and the invite, ceremony and speeches were in two languages. DP says that it's a shame that some Welsh speakers are so possessive of their native language, that they want to exclude non Welsh speakers! Pob lwc i chi - good luck to you!

"it's one thing to speak Welsh to Welsh people in Wales, but if you have a group where everyone can speak one language, and only some know a second, why would you actively exclude some of the group by only conversing in the second language? "

Most of the time we do actually turn to English. It's very annoying actually. Every time I meet up with old school friends I have to speak to them in English because there's a non-Welsh speaking partner there. I find it completely frustrating. 10 people in a lift, 9 speak Welsh and 1 doesn't and everybody has to speak English. I accept that I 'have' to change language if the person is part of our group, sitting at the table with us, etc. but there are people who expect you to turn to English just because they're in the room and those people are entitled idiots.

reply in Russian saying you don't understand Welsh.

Tupped you mean.. ;-P

Gwenhwyfar That's a different situation though - I have never had the expectation of constantly understanding everything everyone says at all times and have them speak in a language that I understand and I agree with you that anyone who would insist on you speaking English in that context is being entitled.

I would have no issue, as the English person in that lift, for you to be speaking Welsh to another occupant of the lift and be excluded from that conversation as I have no expectation of being included any more than I have the expectation of joining in a random English conversation in a lift ... if however we all got out of said lift and went into an office for a meeting, I would expect it to be conducted in English as otherwise I would be being excluded from conversation that I should have an expectation of being included in.