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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Welsh wedding invitation.

653 replies

Spikeyplant · 18/04/2017 22:39

Just as it says in the title really.

My DH has a significantly younger relative who is getting married this summer. We have just received an invitation to the wedding, written entirely in Welsh. Neither DH or I speak Welsh and the bride and groom are well aware of this.

I am totally cool with somebody who grew up in a Welsh first language family wanting to celebrate their wedding in their language. However I can't help feeling it is a bit rude to send out invitations in a language many guests can't understand without even a short note in a mutually spoken language.

AIBU?

OP posts:
SpreadYourHappiness · 20/04/2017 01:06

I can't speak Welsh but if I lived in Wales I would expect to learn it and hear it as it is Wales

I usually do think if you live in a country you should speak their language, however I think Wales is an exception, as only 19% of Welsh people actually speak Welsh.

neitherthisnorthat · 20/04/2017 01:17

Since it sounds like the rellies are first language/primary language Welsh, let's see... did you translate your English wedding invitation to Welsh so you could be sure they could feel included/special/welcome etc?

Use google translate and celebrate language diversity, that's my take.

SpreadYourHappiness · 20/04/2017 01:26

neitherthisnorthat The majority of Welsh people speak English (only 19% actually speak Welsh), so they wouldn't have needed it in Welsh.

Jenni2legs · 20/04/2017 01:49

I think it's lovely, Welsh needs to be used and protected- their special day, using their language- fine!

I find wedding ceremonies boring tbh, Welsh would be a nice change for me.

MrsTerryPratchett · 20/04/2017 06:01

I live in a place which is one of the most linguistically diverse in the world. But these languages, spoke by the First Nations, were suppressed, punished and banned. Just like Welsh.

Some of them are dead already. Some have a handful or even one native speaker left (imagine the loneliness of that). Happily some are resurging thanks to a lot of work and effort on the part of First Nations people. I love to hear the songs and prayers. Hear the little kids talk when their parents can't (it makes the grandparents so happy). Sometimes people translate, sometimes they explain and sometimes I just listen.

I feel deeply honoured when I'm invited to cultural events. I have been an honoured guest of a few First Nations and am proud to live on traditional territory.

It's a wedding invitation. From someone who clearly values their culture. It's not an insult.

margaritasbythesea · 20/04/2017 06:08

How many speak Welsh depends where you live. Across the whole population it might be that low but I worked until last year for a rural charity in West Wales and most people who live there who were born in Wales spoke Welsh most of the time.

One of the problems faced by the Welsh language is that people often feel the need to speak English in front of English speakers. It makes it very dufficult to learn Welsh! I used to work in a school where Welsh and Englush were streamed - so Welsh native speakers would learn Maths in Welsh for example. They began introducing good English speaking learners into the Welsh groups and the stream started speaking English amongst themselves as a result. Welsh does have to fight to survive in the context of the English language dominance in Wales.
Whether you think it should bother or not is another matter.

margaritasbythesea · 20/04/2017 06:10

English speaking learners of Welsh, I mean.

neitherthisnorthat · 20/04/2017 06:11

spread: I didn't say need.

NightWanderer · 20/04/2017 06:32

I think these threads sometimes take a life of their own. The OP simply asked if people thought it was a bit rude that she received a wedding invitation in Welsh-only when the bride and groom know she can't speak Welsh. Some people felt it was rude, some felt it was fine, some felt it was probably just a mistake. It's just one of those things that opinions differ. I doubt it has been keeping the OP up at night.

I think accusations of anti-Welsh sentiment and oppression of indigenous cultures is a bit excessive. I say that as someone who had a Gaelic singer at her wedding and despite most people not speaking Gaelic many were moved to tears and thought it was the highlight of the wedding. I also say that as someone who teaches ESL. I tell my students that communication is important. I'm sure it will be a lovely wedding and the OP will be pleased to go.

LillianGish · 20/04/2017 06:52

Comparisons with French, Spanish, Italian weddings etc are a bit misleading. Many people in those countries don't speak English - surely the point is all Welsh speakers do. Have the invitations in Welsh by all means, but surely they could have jotted a quick note in English for the non-Welsh speakers they are inviting otherwise it feels a bit like a deliberate attempt to make you feel inadequate.

Casschops · 20/04/2017 07:08

Goodness me it's their day they can have it in whichever language and they wish. Welsh is a beautiful and ancient language try and think positively. I am English leaning Welsh as a second language but there is a view still there still seems to be some marginalisation of Welsh. Google translate will give you sufficient information or just phone them?

Gwenhwyfar · 20/04/2017 07:46

"I think accusations of anti-Welsh sentiment and oppression of indigenous cultures is a bit excessive. "

Not at all. Plenty of people have made the point that if it was a majority language of an independent country, they wouldn't be complaining (see Lillian above). One poster complained about bilingual road signs in Wales.

Bluebell28 · 20/04/2017 08:12

I tend to think the bride and groom have the last word on wedding arrangements. .the speeches I never listen to , I just hope that they are short. This thread has made me want to visit Wales...happy memories Aberystwyth 1968

FeedTheSharkAndItWIllBite · 20/04/2017 09:33

I am rather shocked by the people saying they wouldn't attend a wedding held in Welsh or that this would clearly mean the couple didn't care about non-Welsh speaking people...I mean, what? :=0

Yes, we had invites in 3 languages (although Italian was more of a curtesy to my grandmother, seeing as pretty much all my younger cousins etc either speak German or at least understand English...). We also didn't send any in French, despite me having some French speaking family...

Anyhow, the ceremony was in 2 languages (DH tried with German...). Doesn't mean we didn't want my grandmother there. It simply meant that adding a 3rd language would have been too much in our opinion (plus, finding a priest that speaks German and English and Italian was difficult...)

I'm sure some people only understood a little. But that doesn't mean they weren't wanted...
Idk, the invite was a bit rude. But is it really this important you understand what the priest is saying?

The only person offended by our wedding was my Engish MIL.

Our wedding was apparently "strange". (I think she probably meant "too foreign"? Idk...)

FeedTheSharkAndItWIllBite · 20/04/2017 09:37

but surely they could have jotted a quick note in English for the non-Welsh speakers they are inviting otherwise it feels a bit like a deliberate attempt to make you feel inadequate

Maybe they simply forgot? It can happen... That's a big assumption, thinking it was done to create feelings of inadequacy (? Uhm, is that an English word? I hope it is...)

The people printing our birth anouncement cards accidentally revealed the sex of our baby (to us). So... I mean, it's very possible somebody simply forgot/the little notes got lost/the OP was supposed to get one...

Idk, I mean, if she's really bothered she should just give them a call.

ChaiTeaTaiChi · 20/04/2017 09:37

Comparisons with French, Spanish, Italian weddings etc are a bit misleading. Many people in those countries don't speak English - surely the point is all Welsh speakers do

That's exactly not the point. Leaving aside the point that a huge amount of people in Spain, Italy and France do indeed speak at least some English, you are downgrading the importance of Welsh because you think the fact that they also speak English makes it less acceptable for them to use it for what it is: their first language.
That's not for you to say. If you, like most British people, only speak English, that is your problem, it is not for everyone else to accomodate you because they speak more languages than you.
It's not them that is rude, its you.

nothercupoftea · 20/04/2017 09:51

you don't really invite random strangers to a wedding, so you must know what language they speak, and what language you normally communicate with them?

FeedTheSharkAndItWIllBite · 20/04/2017 10:02

nother
Honestly, language wise there's no way you can accomodate everybody (IMO!). I, for example, didn't send French invites to the French parts of my family. I didn't want invites/menus/etc in 4 languages...! (It wasn't an issue...)

And my (something something. Unlce twice removed maybe?) uncle's wife for example speaks Chinese, Italian and very little English. she probably understood very little of our primarily English/German wedding. And their daughter only understood the little bits that were in Italian... So? It's not on purpose to exlude or anything. It just happens.

I still think it's interesting that my lovely Chinese aunt (?) wasn't offended at all. But my English MIL was. Idk... Maybe it's just my inlaws. And whilst they are pretty awesome they do seem to be less culturally flexible than the other parts of my family.

DiscoMoo · 20/04/2017 10:15

My DP and DSD are both Welsh speakers, DSD goes to the same Welsh school that DP went to. They both know people who had never spoken or heard English until they went to school. And I live in South Wales, in an area not usually considered to be predominately Welsh speaking. DSD has party invitations in Welsh. I listen to her rEad in Welsh even though I am at beginner level in the language. I don't refuse to hear her read because I don't understand what she is reading - I will ask her to translate or try to work out the gist of it for myself (using the pictures).

I don't think it was intentionally rude. I'm sure the couple would be mortified if they knew they were considered attention speaking etc. Some posters on this thread have been much ruder.

DiscoMoo · 20/04/2017 10:15

*seeking

Birdandsparrow · 20/04/2017 10:21

It's a bit pointless to send you a wedding invitation you can't understand. No problem with having it in another language but how will you go if you don't know where and when?
I went to uni in Wales, my graduation was in Welsh, as it my degree certificate. I have no problem with people wanting to use another langauge or even give that language preference, but why would you write to people in a language you know they don't speak?
I now live in Spain. I got married in Spain so had Spanish invitations for Spanish speakers and English invitations for English speakers. It's not difficult. Anything else is just a bit weird. Why would you expect your guests to have to translate the invitation?

Birdandsparrow · 20/04/2017 10:23

Maybe they are doing Welsh ones to Welsh speakers and English to the rest and have sent you the wrong one by mistake?

Bluebell28 · 20/04/2017 10:47

Maybe they have increased the Welsh speaking population by sending the Welsh invitation. .I just learned some Welsh Grin

TaraCarter · 20/04/2017 10:55

no, I agree, if it was in a different language all the English speakers would be falling over themselves to get to google translate and show off how cultured they are...
However it is Welsh, and that seems to drive English people insane.

Completely agree. I can see the double standard and I'm English!

whatsthecomingoverthehill · 20/04/2017 10:58

I'd take the invite as being cutesy rather than rude. It's hardly difficult to translate it, or just ring them up if not sure.

But this being MN of course they are doing it deliberately to offend you and you shouldn't go.

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