To think this is really underhand of MIL?

[Realitea]

Currently staying with IL's for a few days. Mil wants dc to stay without the rest of us for a bit longer to spend some time together. Dh told her yesterday it's up to dc and we were planning on asking them later today. Mil said she would not put any pressure on them at all.
This morning I heard mil asking dc herself and when they said they'd rather go home she kept quietly talking them into it until they decided they will stay. Whispering in the ear, bribing.. I am really angry about this! Who do I speak to? Dc/mil or dh? Or do I just let it go?

Yes I will tell them they'll never have to choose again. It's too much for a child to have to do.

Did your husband think this was an opposite for 'couple time'?

I'd tell him him - you won't be treading in egg shells in future and he's been a complete arse.

OP, you have to put this behind you but learn from it and seriously grow some balls.

I say this from personal experience of having a horrendously manipulative, selfish, controlling and conniving MIL.

This behavior will get worse, not better. Trust me, I have been there. And your DH will not change until he is forced to. At the moment he is taking the easy route, which is to allow his mother to have her way. Because you are putting up with it. When I took a stand instead of accepting things, DH did back me, and in an effective way, not just a half hearted attempt to appease us both.

Like I said, dig deep and just stand up to this sort of thing immediately and firmly. In this case, you should have walked in and interrupted the minute you saw Mil talking to your children and called her out on it. Politely but firmly: "We agreed we'd ask the children together. Why are you asking them now?"
"They said they wanted to come back so that's what is happening"

Don't worry about the short term consequences, i.e. Mil throwing a tantrum, the long term consequences of Mil controlling your family are far more serious.

Agreed. I wish I'd stepped in at the time.

Astro55, dh just saw it as a 'please MIL time' more than anything else. So much for having a nice break tonight, I've spent the evening crying (but then I do have awful pmt too!)

In the nicest possible way, you need to stand up for yourself and your children. Honestly you do. All that's happened here is your children are upset, you're upset, you and DH have fallen out all because nobody would say no to this woman.

It's not easy, but I promise it gets easier. My son was supposed to be going out once with my MIL, he sees her every week, but was feeling under the weather and when she arrived he got upset and didn't want to go. She wasn't happy when I told her he was staying with me, but I don't give a shit. My childs needs come before hers, it's that simple. Your DH doesn't sound much better than his mother if I'm honest.

and you and DH have fallen out*

Yes dh has the same streak in him from learned behaviour.
Surely he can see how bad this is? How can he not?
I'm going to tell him that letting the dcs choose is not an option in future as it was confusing for the children and upsetting for me. I'm past caring what his view is.

Don't worry op. I can see that you didn't expect this sort of underhand behaviour and were caught offguard, especially when MiL had sounded like she understood.
Next time you won't be caught on the back foot.

I'll be on the ball next time. I know what to look out for.

Don't beat yourself up OP. Nine tenths of navigating this stuff is knowing what's coming and then having the appropriate tools and responses to deal with it. Consider it another step in learning how to handle and manage your MIL. You've got the solution now for this problem next time - DCs don't choose. For each new challenge do the same thing - find the cleanest solution that keeps your DCs protected.

Meanwhile, try to be kind to yourself.

So if the dcs don't choose should that be the end of them staying there without us there too? It's quite obvious they'd rather we were there so maybe that's the solution to this one?

If that's what you decide then yes!

This is exactly the kind of stunt my MIL would pull. And exactly the kind of way my DH would respond too - he has been conditioned his entire life to let her walk all over him. I could've written your post!

I really sympathise with you OP as at times it just feels utterly depressing that this battle of wills is how we will be living our lives from now on.

The last year or so I have managed to grow more of a backbone and stand up to her and care less about her furious reactions (and weirdly, DH has followed my lead too - sounds pathetic but I'm so proud of him for standing up to this woman who has told him what to do his entire life. It's not at all easy for him!). Standing up to her is the only way. It's so hard I know! And frustrating when you're put on the spot. I always try and stay one step ahead of my MIL - she's fairly predictable with what she will demand so I try and pre empt those discussions/situations now. Not always possible. And honestly - utterly exhausting! She's the biggest source of discord in our marriage without a doubt,

Anyway just wanted to say you're not alone!!

That is underhand and totally unacceptable - I am not sure how you will continue to have good relationship with her. How silly of her.

My view is that you can subtly get a sense of what the DCs want without asking them outright (e.g. "Are you guys looking forward to going home? Having a good time here? Wish this could last longer?") so that your decision is at least based on a general idea of their views. Obviously you have to handle it carefully and not make any connection between that conversation and the decision you later make, which they need not know about anyway.

Alternatively, you make the best guess of it you can based on your knowledge of them and simply decide.

You need stock phrases ready

You are trying to be fair to someone who doesn't play fair

Wel'll decide on that later and let you know

We are undecided wel'll leet you know

That really doesn't work

You don't have to appease her feelings make excuses or pussyfoot about

You are in charge YOU decide and she needs to know that

I agree with PP, this is unfortunately where you decide whether you raise your children in the belief that MiL's feelings, wants and needs are paramount and they need to get with the enabling programme

^^ This

But when you see the warp speed at which your DCs internalised your MIL's desires and then re-presented them as their own, I think that's a very vivid illustration of how difficult it is for adult men who have been very effectively conditioned throughout their own childhood to suddenly rethink how they characterise their mother's behaviour

YY

you owe it to your family to grow a bit of a spine about this, however much you end up having to be the bad guy as a result, and however much you feel it 'should' be your DH doing the heavy lifting. It's all very well not to rock the boat in situations where it's only you, the DIL, who are getting the muddy end of the stick, but now that your children are being affected, surely it makes it easier to do what's necessary?

But muddy end of stick often goes far further than that esp if Mils dh enables her and is going at it gung ho for an easy life.

Muddy stick can mean wider family are cut off from the DC as mil might force the only contact through themselves eg, other family members arrange to meet one, and then suddenly plans are cancelled and have to go through MIL etc and meet at mils house, so dc - miss out on wider family as well as the dh.

Its easier to do if you have a larger family on both sides but sometimes, its not that easy.

OP I really really feel for you and I get this all the bleedin time from MIL, ONCE poor dd ran out saying " leave me alone, stop it" in fact they have just stayed with them for three days and nights and they still came round a week later treating us like we cut them off from their GC. Its maddening, Mil uses emotional black mail and looks at me - like I am the one who makes older dd not want to go there when its her bloody behaviour.

Its a fucking nightmare situation, and yet - I would love it if Mil was a normal warm lovely person but she just isnt she is a night mare.

fluer

same here And honestly - utterly exhausting! She's the biggest source of discord in our marriage without a doubt I could have also written your post, we have also had some basic counseling about it.

I cant bear it - I want to move and the main reason would be to get away from them, FIL is a very pushy, weedling business man, very manipulative he seems to do anything just to get an easy life. the pressure from them in untenable....

Last year they had the dc over night for two nights, at first I thought it had gone really well and thought "brilliant maybe dh and I can get away from another two night break next year" but when I said to DD she was going back there for a night soonish after - she broke down in tears and begged me not to send her back.

I just want to tell them this! Be honest about it - but then I risk even more pressure put on DD. I have had to tell her now - whenever she wants to see GP ask us and we will take them, however if she doesnt want too see them she also must not worry about it and feel happy in her decision. Its a nightmare.

Just wanted to say I'm sorry you had such a miserable time saying goodbye to your kids and getting home, OP. Your DH has been an arse really, albeit that I do understand (only too well) how hard it is to deal with narcissistic parents. I fear it's you who has to grasp the nettle in dealing with this vile woman, so as to protect your kids in future, but now you've got the measure of her and also now you know you can't rely on your DH to back you up, you are at least forewarned and will handle it all better next time she pulls a stunt like this. Grim to have to brace yourself for a long-running battle of wills, but you'll find lots of good advice all over MN, especially in AIBU and Relationships, for dealing with this sort of behaviour, and also for how to deal with the marital fallout that ensues. Chin up, OP, they'll be home tomorrow.

at least she wants to spend time with them and how much of an effort mil makes whereas my parents don't.

So? You don't get to manipulate children into doing what you want to do because they have other grandparents who don't ask them to stay over at all! Your MIL is not a 'good' grandparent because your parents aren't and your husband bringing your parents up is a (perhaps unconscious) attempt to distract/undermine your point by drawing attention to your family's perceived shortcomings in order to stop having to talk about his own.

Yanbu but you allowed this all to happen.

And you must know what she is like if your children are under10 unless your DH is new to you? If you haven't stood up to her in the years gone by what makes you sure you will in the future?

I can't believe all these awful MILs just materialise overnight? Surely you knew what she was like before marrying and having children?

I would not have given them a choice or allowed mil to persuade them. You're their mum, tell them what's happening and stick to the original plan, children need security.

I bloody hated being dumped at granny's/auntie's etc. Next time, ensure you have the plan prepared in advance. Don't let dh bully you into doing what his mother wants. I'm appalled at him. If my dh behaved like that, he'd soon be an xdh.

Fleur34 I could've written your exact post.
DH was also conditioned to appease Mil no matter what.

It's exhausting and it is an ongoing battle.

But it can be done.

OP, like others have said, don't beat yourself up. This is really hard. So much easier on paper than in practice. But the more you stand up for yourself, the easier it becomes and the more your DH will follow your lead.

My Mil died two years ago, but even if she hadn't I had made some significant gains over the previous 5 years or so from what was a pretty horrific situation. My advice for what it's worth:

• Respond immediately to any bullshit, manipulation or underhand behavior. Call it out immediately. People only behave like that because they know others won't have the courage to confront it.

• Don't get emotional or be baited into doing so. Keep your interactions kind, polite, factual and firm. She may attempt to paint you as someone who is upset, irrational, jealous, can't cope when you stand up to her. (This is my experience)

• don't be manipulated into thinking you are making a big fuss over nothing.

• Stop worrying about hurting her feelings. This is exactly how she will keep getting her own way and she will play on this. don't allow yourself to be guilt tripped.

• Always be one step ahead of your Mil. Take the lead with making plans and decisions about your family. Include her but don't let her take control or establish herself as someone who needs to be consulted.

• Always talk 'we' and make sure decisions come from you and your DH together.

Some of this may seem dramatic or overkill, but I wish I had acted sooner. I left it too late, and was far too nice. I allowed myself to think that she didn't really mean it, that I was being unreasonable or selfish. Or that it was a one off or not a big deal.
Nip it in the bud now OP, you'll save yourself a whole load of pain.

This is such sad reading, especially the bit where your dc ran up to you as you were leaving - and you still didn't 'rescue' them

So they're truly muddled up now
He said they would've agreed to go without mils input and they're headstrong enough to choose even with mils pressure

Well their minds certainly weren't 'muddled' when they said 'no' originally - is your husband intimating that you've lied about what you overheard?

They were forced to say 'yes' under duress - both by mil and your husband
OP, you knew your dc didn't want to stay!
They just didn't want mil to be angry with them or start her histrionics
Them saying 'don't know' was really them saying 'no'

We've been to counselling over this before and have nearly separated. It's a very long standing problem

Well he's not going to change, OP.
The recent 'good times' have distracted you from the reality of your relationship - it's hit a dead end.

Good thing is if/when you separate you don't need to accommodate mil's contact with dc, that will be the dad's job - on his contact time.

Be your dc hero, OP, otherwise they'll end up like your husband