To think I'm not normal about dtd?

[DcQuinn]

My first time post after lurking for a while.

I have been reading about how some women feel that having sex once a week is not enough for their partners. Because they don't feel like it etc. But now i am starting to feel that i have a problem. I could go months without it. It doesn't bother me anymore. My husband is actually great and has the patience of a saint. I feel so bad for him, i just wonder what the hell is wrong with me? We have been together for 14 years and I still fancy him loads. I have a 15 year old and my two youngest are 3 and 16 weeks. But i have felt like this before i had the younger two. So what is wrong with me?!

If a man is happy to have sex with a woman even though he knows she doesnt want to then i dont see how that isnt sexual assault.

Quite. I think the argument that it isn't sexual assault comes from men who have been in that situation and don't like being told that they have sexually assaulted women.

Well, perhaps that's how my DW feels, although the way she expresses it is that it would be "selfish" for her to do anything to get me in the mood when I've previously said that I'm too knackered for sex that evening. This is despite the fact that although I haven't given her permission to have sex with me, I have given her permission to try to get me in the mood. She doesn't take it.

Perhaps she feels that's a bit rapey. If so, my own view is that's nuts.

The point being missed in the last two pages of discussion is that sex ought to be a way of showing love and affection - ie, it should never be something you take (in fact, the etymology of the term "rape" is a "taking"), but something you give, along with other types of affection in a very natural way. If these things aren't happening, there's a big problem in the relationship.

Hmm.

In light of my second paragraph I think I will reword as follows:

"I have given her permission to try to get me in the mood. She refuses to accept it".

Probably better wording.

I have given her permission to try to get me in the mood

And there you go. You have given her permission to try and get you in the mood.

If a woman chooses to have sex with a man not through manipulation but because she wants to do that, but Doran't enjoy it, it is not rape. If she wanted to stop and was prevented from stopping of course it would be rape..

Being coerced and manipulated are not the same things are making a free choice.

Clearly if there are situations where sex is a problem or issue the couple need to find out/work out what's wrong unless they both choose a sex-less relationship.

I think there is a difference between being forced into sex you do not want and choosing sex you do not necessarily enjoy.

They are different things and to conflate the two is very insulting to victims of rape.

I'm not saying everyone is doing that, or even anyone is! It's just that seems to be what happens on these threads sometimes.

It just seems there is a danger we assume not enjoying something is the measure of whether it is consensual, which is not the case IMHO.

I think more women would want sex more if there was more in it for them. In general men have an orgasm every time. In general women don't, or it take more effort anyway. If women came every time they had sex they might be more up for it. Most men are really not all that good at getting a woman there (in my fairly extensive experience) and a lot of women put up with that in the early stages, but it's less appealing after a few years.
Yes, I know that will probably be the cue for loads of posters to wax lyrical about their hubby's prowess, but that's my experience, and the experience of most of the women I know.

I think this is a huge part of the problem.

If standard sex for men essentially amounted to performing oral sex on their partner every time and nothing else - something intimate, sometimes exciting, but probably not going to lead to orgasm... How long are they going to commit to that routine before they are bored and trying to avoid it? Or even if they had sex but never came. Because that's what straight sex amounts to for a lot of women.

But it's hard to counteract because women are not encouraged to explore their bodies and sexuality like boys are, even though it's easier for them to start with. My best friend admitted to me that she had her first orgasm in her 30s, and it shocked her because she'd assumed she'd been cumming before, when she'd just been reacting to the sexual excitement building up then tailing off. Now she knows what she's been missing. Thing is, she was alone when it happened, and still can't cum with her DH because how can she tell him that she needs an entirely different strategy to the one he thinks he's successfully employed for the last 15 years?

snickers

Yes indeed, but she doesn't see it that way. Perhaps she's telling me a white lie and actually isn't really in the mood herself, but she's not someone who generally tells lies. I think she genuinely thinks that it would be a selfish imposition of her own wants on me, and despite my telling her that actually I want her to do that - to help me get in the mood to do something that ought to be a normal habit of our marriage - she won't.

I absolutely agree that coercion, manipulation, nagging, pressure, and other similar acts of unkindness have no place in a relationship. They are impositions of one person's will on another. But I myself will always try to be ready to receive affection if she chooses to give it, and be open to being persuaded (in a nice way) to have sex.

KingsCross88

It doesn't say much for my own sexual prowess, but my own experience bears this out.

When DW and I were first married what she wanted was PIV. She said she orgasmed. When I tried oral, she stopped me, saying she thought it icky. Some years later - post children - I tried again and she let me, and loved it, clearly more than PIV. Some years after that I bought her a vibrator, and now she loves that. She's not that fussed about oral and PIV is really just for me although she doesn't mind it.

The reason why I bought the vibrator was because tbh I was starting to find sex a massive faff without that much in it for me: I'd have been happier with either more attention from her or quickie PIV, so I resorted to technology.

BTW I grew up in the 70s and 80s and was most certanly not encouraged to play with my body. If there is a reason why men are more likely to do so, it's because having an erection rubbing against your trousers is not something that is easily ignored, least of all by onesself.

(oh, the embarrasing memories)

Yes maybe 'encouraged' is the wrong word! More that it's accepted that it will happen and even seen as funny (like 'I cracked his blanket in half' in Bridesmaids) whereas similar behaviour in a girl is seen as shameful or disturbing or maybe even that she might be acting out from sexual abuse.

I'm pretty shocked by the comments on the Mail Online by men (I assume) who seem to think that it is a wife's duty to have sex with her partner, even if she doesn't want it. Nobody has a right to have sex with any other human!

See what you've gone and done there is read the comments on The Fail. These are not only Fail readers but they are Fail readers who have accounts.

Why didn't you answer the points I made in this post, Snickers?

^So women are 'taking advantage' of their partners by not having sex when they don't want to?

I didn't say that: stop lying about me, if you please.

I said, rather, they are taking advantage of their partners' willingness to forgo sex, which is a completely different matter. You are twisting my words to make it sound as though I think men have a right to sex whether their partners want it or not. I didn't say that because I don't think it.

The alternative to that is having sex when their partner wants to even if they don't.

This is a false alternative, as you well know. Another alternative is for the partners to live in a partnership which has no sexual component. I should know. I was married to [and loyal to] a woman for twenty four years, during which the relationship, at her insistence was sexless for about twenty of them. I put up with it because I loved her.

Which is a bit rapey.

That is a vile allegation and one which I repudiate, as I repudiate you, with contempt. It is also the kind of nastiness you would never have the courage to use if you weren't able to hide behind a false name on an anonymous forum.^

Of course, I know the answer - which is that you didn't answer because you couldn't without admitting that you had misread my post, and, being both arrogant and over-entitled, could not bring yourself to admit that you might have been wrong.

You are worth no more of my time.

Clearly I am misunderstanding this statement then.
the number of women who seem to think that they have a right to take advantage of their partners' willingness to forgo a sexual component to their relationships

To me that reads that women who don't want sex are wrong to not have sex with their partners.
If that isn't what you mean then can you please explain what you do mean.

Oh and I'm sorry that a silly little woman doesn't understand what the men want.
I'm so stupid and entitled by taking advantage of my husband by not having sex when I don't want to.
Thank goodness a MAN came along to explain it to me.

Think we've hit a bit of a sore spot snickers

Some men do certainly believe that it is a wife's duty to service her husband when he wants it - whether or not she wants to.

I know these men to exist.

But I am not going to read the comments on the Dailyfail!

I'm just a bit fed up with being told that I am taking advantage of my husband by not having sex with him at all times.
I think that is something worth getting pissed off about.
Especially when it's a man telling me this.

Snickers yes i mean i think we hit a sore spot on him.

Alright, I think two groups of people are completely misunderstanding each other here. I'm a 34 year old woman with 3 kids-1 girl and 2 autistic boys. My life is crazy and I have little time to myself. I understand the crazy mom life.

Me and my husband have sex 3-4 times a week. For me, sex is mandatory in a relationship. Sex is something that connects me and my husband like nothing else can. It's the ultimate bonding experience and going without it makes me feel empty. A relationship without it-or even sporadic- would feel fake.

My husband is the one person who knows me better then anyone, so he knows how much it means to me. He knew who I was when we married and if he suddenly decided he was done with sex and didn't tell me I'd be hurt and furious. I wouldn't be mad that we wasn't forcing himself to dtd with me, I'd be mad that a fundamental part of what I need in a relationship was no longer an option and I wasn't given any notice.

I'd try to fix myself. I'd talk to him. I'd spin around doing whatever he said trying to get back to where we were because deep down I trust that he'd tell me if he was done with sex forever. He wouldn't really lie to me? Would he? He might, if he knew that I would leave. Perhaps I'd give up and everything would be OK. THAT'S manipulative. I don't want sex from someone who's forcing themselves and it's causing distress, but I don't want a sexless life.

On the other hand, many people (not just women) don't feel that way about sex. Sex is something you do exclusively with your partner that's pleasurable, fun and brings you closer but not on the same level as monogamy. The desire for sex comes and goes, but the base level of love and companionship remains. You still feel the same feelings of butterflies and romance as before, but the act of sex just doesn't feel fun right now. You don't know when it will feel like fun again, but that's ok because the love you feel for them never changes. Sex is like chocolate, or Disneyland- great when you want it but if you don't want it it doesn't mean you hate it.

I'll believe him if he says he's overwhelmed at work and he needs help with something. I'll do it. I'll believe him if he says it's his self esteem and I'll do anything to make sure he feels sexy. I'll believe him and believe him and wonder when enough is enough. When will I reach the goal he says he's giving me? What am I not hearing?

People don't leave relationships for lack of sex, they leave because they came to the realization that they no longer have the same idea of a healthy relationship as their partner. Sex is just as important to me as monogamy, touch, emotional connection. I need my partner to want it, to want me and to be honest with me about his desires.

Everything isn't black and white and people have a lot of room for compromise. We've gone 3 months without sex due to a back injury, but it was hard for both of us and we always found ways to connect sexually because we have the same idea about sex . If something horrible happened I could refrain easily if he was honest and we found another way to be sexual. If he was deceitful I couldn't get over the lies or the fact that he purposely misled me.

I hope this sheds light on the two sides. I feel like when many are in the depths of troubles in a relationship it's hard to say what you feel. I've had this happen to me in past relationships and it's never easy.

Ah I see Lou. I thought you were talking to me!!

Sometimes it's just easier to dtd, even though you don't want to. It does not leave you with a good feeling about yourself though. But it may make your partner more relaxed and pleasing your partner may be enough satisfaction for yourself. It's a thin line though, do we compromise our SELF to please our other halves, or is this reading too much into it?

RomaManroe

Great post. I'm so glad there are people out there like you.

Great post. I'm so glad there are people out there like you.

Yes indeed, suppose where there's the will - there's a way.

Our sexual urges and libido are exquisitely controlled by our hormones

We need the right balance of Testosterone, Progesterone and Estrogen

Women need just a little Testosterone, a modest amount of Progesterone and not too much Estrogen

If you would like to understand this better, read more about this in a great book by Dr Marion Gluck:
It must be my Hormones
Dr Gluck runs a clinic in Harley Street in London
The book covers all these hormones - and the effect of different foods

Check out Dr Marilyn Glenville, who has clinics in London, Kent, Scotland and Ireland

Your doctor might be knowledgeable about this, but you may be better going to a Nutritional Therapist
Go to BANT and search for therapists near you.
I suggest that you interview 10 of them by phone, meet 3 to find out their experience - and if they have solved this problem 10 times before - and then work with 1 of them

As an example of the effects of these hormones, a nurse I know was prescribed Progesterone cream.
Within hours she very hungry and her libido was suddenly raging !
Over a few days she reduced the amount and kept the 2 in balance

This is very easy to solve, if you want to !

The benefit to you and your partner will be immense, as it helps to restore the intimacy and closeness

PS: Men need to have more Testosterone and as little Estrogen as possible. Get this ratio right and their sexual urges - and performance - will return. Check out the book: The Testosterone Syndrome by Dr Eugene Shippen
.

Rufus. It's absolute bollocks to argue that human sexual behaviour is solely driven by hormones. Yes they play a part but so do emotions, physical fitness, relationship status and individual personality.