To think that it is a genuine possibility that the Sarin attacks have been falsified by the us to legitimise air strikes

[Beadoren]

As above really...

Have we been totally conditioned by the media to believe that the uk/us are the good guys and Russia are the bad guys. I think the us have form for things like this, does video constitute proof? All just rings a bit of the whole Iraq war thing. Do they just have different agendas in Syria than Russia?

I couldn't see the planes on 9/11 either op

Yet we do know that the group that carried out the attacks is primarily funded by Saudi Arabia and the majority of the hijackers were Saudis.

Strange that there doesn't seem to have been much made of this.

NATO only serves American interests. Why do we still continue to pay into this?
Oh I forgot! Because the only other/rational way we could have gone was to integrate more with our fellow Europeans and work towards joint EU interests instead of slaving away for the interests of the USA and its Oil Barons! And we decided against allying with our EU partners.

If NATO didn't serve the interests of its Nations Counterpoint, then they would leave. Why did France decide to resume full membership in 2009? Why is Montenegro about to join if their interests aren't served? NATO doesn't operate on QMV like the EU, but on unanimity. If the other Nations don't like some thing, it gets blocked. You might just like to look at the list of NATO Nations and EU Member States, and see if you can find some correlation there...so your claim that we aren't allied with EU Member States is a bit disingenuous really, given that most are full NATO Nations and those that aren't are PfP countries.

Batgirl, questioning the veracity of what we are told does not mean one has to go to the extreme end of weird conspiracy theories. The choices are not one extreme or another - believing everything the US says versus extreme conspiracy theories. There are lots of other choices within the spectrum eg, considering that there are other reasonable explanations including that the rebels may have been responsible and not Assad.

I don't get why it is so difficult to accept that at the moment the truth is yet to be established.

Many of these countries join NATO because they want to be protected by the few countries with nuclear capabilities. For, if you are attacked by a non-NATO country, that threat that another member will unleash their nuclear arsenal against you will be a deterrent.

The problem is what happens if member countries go to war against each other eg, Greece and Turkey.

I think a big question is why do some countries feel the need to join NATO? Why do they feel insecure? I think it is because the world is becoming more and more volatile and countries are worried about wars and want to secure some protection.

Thank you for providing some links, Misstic. I thought the last one from the BBC on the UN report in particular was very sensible. there are strong indicators from their evidence that point the finger at forces loyal to the Assad regime.

Finding, you said. I do think it's naive in the extreme to take the word of any leader as gospel. Well, yeah. And it would be bizarre to take the word of Trump, in particular, as gospel.

But who here is doing that?

I also can't understand this idea that thinking:
a. there was a chemical attack
b. Assad was behind it.
Makes you some kind of war-mongering, Trump lackey who thinks unquestioningly that the US are always 'goodies.'

Why would people with such "open minds" leap to such lazy conclusions? I don't get it.

I'm really interested in the idea that the MSM have a certain uniform view but the truth is "very different".
Perhaps posters who feel this could say firstly what the MSM view is and what the truth that is very different is.

"given the influence the us has over the uk and thus the uk media is it a possibility that we are hearing a very biased story?"

Sure. Trump is really a nobel laureate with several PhD in science subjects. That's how Trump knows that global warming is a Chinese conspiracy & vaccines all cause autism.

The media lies to us if they say anything different, you know, you can't trust anything they say because the governments control the media.

Oh, and the textbooks lie, too. The world is really flat and sitting on top of a huge tortoise. People in North Korea are the happiest & best fed in the world. Viktor Litvenyenko orchestrated his own death just to get his political enemies in trouble. It's all obvious now, right?

Misstic France didn't need nuclear protection, it has its own, but rejoined anyway.

The whole point about Article 5 is that if Greece and Turkey went to war, then NATO would step in. Article 5 takes the possibility of armed conflict between NATO nations off the table.

Histiny, it's interesting that you neglect everything else the articles said and only picked up on the part of the BBC article that said there is a possibility that Assad used chemicals in 2013. That very article and the others also point to the rebels having used chemical weapons and that they still have that capability. Why ignore that side of the stories?

You know sometimes it just is what it is.

Assad gassed his people. Then denied it.

Similarly, it's sometimes just what it is. Assad didn't gas his people. Then told the truth.

Former British Ambassador to Syria Peter Ford has more nuanced view of the chemical attack in BBC interview (not on BBC server anymore)

Peter Ford's life will be in grave danger now

It's being reported pretty widely now that there are questions about its authenticity.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39588876
www.nytimes.com/2017/04/05/world/middleeast/russia-account-syria-chemical-attack.html?_r=0

And the German police are also investigating the authenticity of the football bus one.
www.itv.com/news/update/2017-04-14/significant-doubts-over-dortmund-bus-bomb-attack-letter/
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dortmund-attack-bombing-borussia-team-bus-bvb-isis-terror-right-wing-extremists-claim-responsibility-a7685281.html
^Dortmund bus attack 'may have been carried out by right-wing extremists who attempted to frame Islamists'
Investigators also examining possibility explosives came from German military stocks^
Lizzie Dearden @lizziedearden Saturday 15 April 2017 20:21 BST

Peter Ford's life will be in grave danger now sad
I think none of us are in such a great position atm, with Trump behaving like he is and Erdogan's new powers, and Le Pen's potential election.

Reported widely now by whom? These articles are from more than a week ago and are the usual press repeating the same story about some anonymous official or the other saying xyz. We had the same with WMD.

Check these out. Are they true? I don't know. All I know is that they are no less true or false. We just don't know and there is a real possibility that Putin and Assad are telling the truth.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4412376/amp/Russia-claims-growing-evidence-gas-attack-fake.html

original.antiwar.com/porter/2017/04/14/new-revelations-belie-trump-claims-on-syria-chemical-attack/

original.antiwar.com/porter/2017/04/14/new-revelations-belie-trump-claims-on-syria-chemical-attack/